Broussard: Raptors Over-achieved Under Mitchell
Old 02-26-2009, 07:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Broussard: Raptors Over-achieved Under Mitchell

Just another person who is seeing alot of we are. That its not necessarily the coaching, but our players are a bunch of under-achievers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Smith's Blog
Just looked up at the TV here in the room and Chris Broussard of ESPN is doing his weekly around-the-league schtick on the Mike and Mike in the Morning show.

One of his lead items?

How Sam Mitchell is going to be one of the hottest commodities on the coaching market this summer. Broussard suggests not only didnít the Raptors under-achieve under Mitchell in his last season and 17 games but in fact they over-achieved given whatís gone on since then.

Iím not sure about that Ė I think Jayís getting about all he can out of this roster Ė but Iíve always held that Sam should, and would, coach again. And now it seems that other people are seeing it, saying it publicly and that can only help Samís pursuit of coaching employment.
Source - Doug Smith's Toronto Raptors blog
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think you have interpreted it wrong. He is saying that the Raps didn't under-achieved with Mitchell, and they have over-achieved since he has been fired. Broussard is saying that Mitchell is one of the hottest coaching commodities.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah, there are a few double negatives in their. He's saying they over-achieved (didn't under-achieve, which doesn't necessarily mean over-achieve)under Mitchell.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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this is news?
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would agree with that. Mitchell has a ways to go to become a good coach, but getting the most out of little talent is one thing he's good at. His teams were fun to watch in that regard, defined by hustle play and gutsy miracle comebacks
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't necessarily think they over-achieved during Sam's COTY season. They just had great chemistry (especially for a team with so many new players), a really weak division/conference and lets face it, Sam did a great job that year until the playoffs rolled around. Chalk the first round exit up to inexperience.

They didn't over or under-achieve last season. They were a .500 team, just like the record indicated. They couldn't rebound to save their lives. The ball stopped moving. The wings stopped moving and "horns up" was run over and over. Another playoffs where the team looked completely unprepared. No excuses, that was horrible.

Here's the thing: Bargnani was under-achieving with Sam, bigtime.
B.C. has staked his reputation on Bargs, selecting him first over-all, which raised eyebrows among his peers. Sam wasn't developing the kid to B.C.'s liking.
If you want to keep your job, try not making your boss look like an idiot to the entire world.
That being said I hope Sam gets another look somewhere. Toronto was his first job as a head guy and he probably learned a lot from the experience. If he takes those lessons with him to his next team he'll be successful.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't think they over-achieved under Smitch. If you think a team with good players get smashed in the first round for two consecutive years has an over-achiever coach, you have to think again. I remember the season when we lost VC due to injury and still made the playoffs and then gave Detroit a run for their money (we were one shot close to eliminating them). I now think Wilkens WAS a real coach.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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lol I wonder if he would say that if we fired him two weeks later
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann38 View Post
Here's the thing: Bargnani was under-achieving with Sam, bigtime.
B.C. has staked his reputation on Bargs, selecting him first over-all, which raised eyebrows among his peers. Sam wasn't developing the kid to B.C.'s liking.
If you want to keep your job, try not making your boss look like an idiot to the entire world.
.
agreed.

the handling of Bargnani was probably Sam's biggest mistake while here, but in his defence it's not to say that he can't get the most out of young players. He did very well with Bosh and Calderon. I'm thinking Bargnani just needed more freedom and more room to learn from his mistakes than Sam was willing to give him.

Either way Sam will be back soon enough. He has good qualities as a head coach.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
agreed.

the handling of Bargnani was probably Sam's biggest mistake while here, but in his defence it's not to say that he can't get the most out of young players. He did very well with Bosh and Calderon. I'm thinking Bargnani just needed more freedom and more room to learn from his mistakes than Sam was willing to give him.

Either way Sam will be back soon enough. He has good qualities as a head coach.
People who think Sam mishandled Bargnani need to watch some of Bargnani's first 30 games to remember how completely lost he was defensively, and how weak he was on the glass. Sam Mitchell made him earn his playing (as best he could without BC interfering) time by improving in those two areas.

People have created this notion that Sam "had it in" for Bargnani. What motive for that is their exactly? The only prejudice Sam Mitchell has is against lazy people.

If it weren't for Sam, Bargs might be Brian Cook. A lot of coaches in Sam's situation would of given up on making Bargnani a complete player, and gone for the immediate results to satisfy the expectations of being a number one pick.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post

People have created this notion that Sam "had it in" for Bargnani. What motive for that is their exactly? The only prejudice Sam Mitchell has is against lazy people.
Hey i'm not saying that Sam had it in for Bargnani at all. I just don't think that Sam give Bargnani the leaniancy he needed to succeed. There was also the constant shifting around of Andrea's role which couldn't have really helped him.

and i don't agree that Bargnani was ever lazy. If anything he has always been one of the harder working players in terms of offseason training.

Hey i'm not knocking Sam.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:31 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fancylad View Post
Hey i'm not saying that Sam had it in for Bargnani at all. I just don't think that Sam give Bargnani the leaniancy he needed to succeed. There was also the constant shifting around of Andrea's role which couldn't have really helped him.

and i don't agree that Bargnani was ever lazy. If anything he has always been one of the harder working players in terms of offseason training.

Hey i'm not knocking Sam.
I don't think Bargnani was ever lazy either, which is why I don't think Mitchell had any bias against playing Bargnani.

Bargnani was completely lost defensively, and when you got a young center who is completely lost on one end of the court, and you got guys on the bench behind him who would be benched in a second for the exact same ineptitude, but you can't bench Bargs and bring him along how you want too because management is interfering...well that results in a odd situation, which results in Bargs being in and out of the lineup.

If anyone is to blame for Bargnani being a starter, being pulled as a starter, etc,etc, it's Collangelo for putting pressure on Mitchell to play him.

He's looking pretty good right now, so who is to say it had a negative effect on his growth in the first place?? Which is really my point. You can assume Bargnani would of grown quicker, but you can also assume he wouldn't of grown properly. Who really knows. Was Sam a little too hard on him and Graham, maybe. But isn't that maybe a good thing in the end.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
If anyone is to blame for Bargnani being a starter, being pulled as a starter, etc,etc, it's Collangelo for putting pressure on Mitchell to play him.

He's looking pretty good right now, so who is to say it had a negative effect on his growth in the first place?? Which is really my point. You can assume Bargnani would of grown quicker, but you can also assume he wouldn't of grown properly. Who really knows. Was Sam a little too hard on him and Graham, maybe. But isn't that maybe a good thing in the end.
I guess when a first overall draft pick happens to be somewhat of a project, things are always going to be a little more complicated.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
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If it weren't for Sam, Bargs might be Brian Cook.
Not possible. Too talented to compare with Cook.
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think you're missing the point.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:42 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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This thread was put up yesterday.

And, yeah Broussard no shit?? Mitchell is a pretty good head coach and will work again.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Sam just expected ppl to work hard like he did when he was a coach, that's the only mindset he has, he doesnt know how to coddle ppl like AB seemingly needs.
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
Sam just expected ppl to work hard like he did when he was a coach, that's the only mindset he has, he doesnt know how to coddle ppl like AB seemingly needs.
I don't think Bargnani needs any more coddling than the other marquee big man on our team. JMO.
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