Bosh to possibly consider Heat? - Page 3
Old 11-19-2009, 12:09 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Take of the blinders people, look at it from a distance.
We told you that this offseason when you went on month long rants about how we should build around Bargnani. You wouldn't listen.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:59 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Bargnani is not getting better so far.

I wish he would.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:01 PM   #43 (permalink)
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We told you that this offseason when you went on month long rants about how we should build around Bargnani. You wouldn't listen.
+ infinity
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:32 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I sometimes wish both sides in this debate, the Bosh lovers and the Bargnani lovers can truly see how ridiculous both are.

Neither is as good as the other makes them out to be, but because this is all we know, we stick to what we know. Perhaps, maybe just perhaps, neither are good enough and neither are bad enough.

I can harp on both players. Last night, with Utah on a run, CB takes a 3. Why? God knows why. But he did and it was a bad decision. He got just as torched on defence as any other player last night.

Bargnani meanwhile is too afraid to play physical. Damn, you're a centre. Deal with it. You don't like it, hit the bricks. Centres play physical, both offensively and defensively. But he's too enamoured with his numbers that he knows if he fouls he's sitting. The fact that every time I watched him he's camping out at the perimeter drives me mad.

See, it's simple. I just did it. In reality, neither is a player you build around. Bargnani is too passive and Bosh isn't good enough to make other players better. It doesn't mean one's better than the other, but what it does mean is we don't have that one guy on this squad who elevates the games of the other players. Guys like Nash, LeBron, Paul, Kobe etc. Those are guys you can build around, because you can get a crappier player and know they can elevate his performance because he's that good. With these two guys, all you have are pieces. Nice pieces, but pieces.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:33 PM   #45 (permalink)
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And why does this team play some of it's best basketball with Bosh and Amir on the floor together??? Amir would have a hard time beating some people on this forum in game of Around the World.
um, that's not true, at least not objectively. We outscore the opponent by most points when weplay the following lineups, in this order:

1. C. Bosh A. Wright J. Calderon A. Bargnani M. Belinelli
2. H. Turkoglu C. Bosh J. Calderon A. Bargnani D. DeRozan
3. H. Turkoglu C. Bosh J. Calderon A. Bargnani M. Belinelli

Notice how calderon, Bosh and andreea are the constant among the to lineups. Even though some unexplicably try to weight one more than the other, defense and offense are equally important. Getting 2 extra points is the same as allowing 2 extra points. If you want to improve defense, you need to play amir over Bargnani or bosh, but if you want to outscore the opponent, you need to play those players with the highest differential between scoring and defense. Common sense ...
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:47 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I sometimes wish both sides in this debate, the Bosh lovers and the Bargnani lovers can truly see how ridiculous both are.

Neither is as good as the other makes them out to be, but because this is all we know, we stick to what we know. Perhaps, maybe just perhaps, neither are good enough and neither are bad enough.

I can harp on both players. Last night, with Utah on a run, CB takes a 3. Why? God knows why. But he did and it was a bad decision. He got just as torched on defence as any other player last night.

Bargnani meanwhile is too afraid to play physical. Damn, you're a centre. Deal with it. You don't like it, hit the bricks. Centres play physical, both offensively and defensively. But he's too enamoured with his numbers that he knows if he fouls he's sitting. The fact that every time I watched him he's camping out at the perimeter drives me mad.

See, it's simple. I just did it. In reality, neither is a player you build around. Bargnani is too passive and Bosh isn't good enough to make other players better. It doesn't mean one's better than the other, but what it does mean is we don't have that one guy on this squad who elevates the games of the other players. Guys like Nash, LeBron, Paul, Kobe etc. Those are guys you can build around, because you can get a crappier player and know they can elevate his performance because he's that good. With these two guys, all you have are pieces. Nice pieces, but pieces.
With all due respect C, that's a load of crap.

Guys like Nash, Lebron, Paul and Kobe have achieved success because they've had good TEAMMATES to play with. Guys that are either tier 2 stars or excellent role players who know how to play the game.

What did Kobe do a few years back when he was on the Lakers by himself? 1st round playoff loss... just like Bosh.

What did KG do in Minny for all those years?

What has Wade done in MIA since Shaq's left?

You want to call it "Bosh homerism" but the reality of the situation is this: Chris Bosh is an excellent player and most certainly a player that you can build around. You just can't put him on a team and expect him to win 50+ games by himself. Is he perfect? Of course not. Is he going to make his share of gaffes? Of course he is.... but at the end of the day he's one of the most dominant big men in the league... and you can bet your ass that the 29 other teams in the league will doing everything they can to grab him from us.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:50 PM   #47 (permalink)
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TO that's fine.

And frankly, I don't have the time to write a rebuttal.

You have rose coloured glasses on. You think I'm attacking Bosh fine. I'm not. I'm calling it as I see it. You love Bosh fine. I honestly could care less.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:52 PM   #48 (permalink)
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One last point.....

Everyone should take a long hard look at how Chris Paul fares this season with his sorry excuse for a team.

And you may also want to catch a few Spurs games now that both Parker and Manu are going to be out for an extended stretch of games. I'm betting that they're going to struggle.. even WITH McDyess and RJ backing him up.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:57 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Neither is as good as the other makes them out to be, but because this is all we know, we stick to what we know. Perhaps, maybe just perhaps, neither are good enough and neither are bad enough.

Bargnani meanwhile is too afraid to play physical. Damn, you're a centre. Deal with it. You don't like it, hit the bricks. Centres play physical, both offensively and defensively. But he's too enamored with his numbers that he knows if he fouls he's sitting. The fact that every time I watched him he's camping out at the perimeter drives me mad.

See, it's simple. I just did it. In reality, neither is a player you build around. Bargnani is too passive and Bosh isn't good enough to make other players better. It doesn't mean one's better than the other, but what it does mean is we don't have that one guy on this squad who elevates the games of the other players. Guys like Nash, LeBron, Paul, Kobe etc. Those are guys you can build around, because you can get a crappier player and know they can elevate his performance because he's that good. With these two guys, all you have are pieces. Nice pieces, but pieces.
+1
and both of them leave a lot to be desired on defense
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:58 PM   #50 (permalink)
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TO that's fine.

And frankly, I don't have the time to write a rebuttal.

You have rose coloured glasses on. You think I'm attacking Bosh fine. I'm not. I'm calling it as I see it. You love Bosh fine. I honestly could care less.
If you say so.

I think that I'm being realistic. For years now I've heard people rip & rip & rip on this kid for what he's NOT doing... rather than appreciating what he IS... and what he's IMPROVED.

There isn't a player in the league who carries his team at BOTH ends of the floor. Not one.

And there isn't a player in the league who can take a team on his shoulders BY HIMSELF for an extended period of time. (Lebron would likely be the closest I've ever seen) A game or 2 or 5? Fine. But eventually stars burn out and they have to rely on their teams to pick up the slack. If there's no help.. there's no win.

Simple as that.

Call it "rose-coloured glasses" if you want but you're dreaming if you think that our Raps teams of the last 5 years would have fared any better with KG, TD or D12 on this team rather than Bosh.

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Old 11-19-2009, 02:00 PM   #51 (permalink)
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There isn't a player in the league who carries his team at BOTH ends of the floor. Not one.
his name is LeBron James
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:04 PM   #52 (permalink)
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or Kob

Or Paul

Or Wade

Or KG

Or Peirce

Or Duncan

etc.


And Bargs has really disappointed me this season.

And I like the Raps, not any one player. Raptors.

Bosh could leave and I wont give a shit.

Bargs could be traded a nd ditto.

And right now, on a team with no defence at all, and a "star" player who is gonna want MAX money to stay, this team is better off building aroung Bargs and starting over.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
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If you say so.

I think that I'm being realistic. For years now I've heard people rip & rip & rip on this kid for what he's NOT doing... rather than appreciating what he IS... and what he's IMPROVED.

There isn't a player in the league who carries his team at BOTH ends of the floor. Not one.

And there isn't a player in the league who can take a team on his shoulders BY HIMSELF for an extended period of time. (Lebron would likely be the closest I've ever seen) A game or 2 or 5? Fine. But eventually stars burn out and they have to rely on their teams to pick up the slack. If there's no help.. there's no win.

Simple as that.

Call it "rose-coloured glasses" if you want but you're dreaming if you think that our Raps teams of the last 5 years would have fared any better with KG, TD or D12 on this team rather than Bosh.
Fine, I'm dreaming.

Again, frankly, I don't honestly care. I haven't really cared about this team when it hasn't shown any commitment to winning. We've always done everything half assed, so yeah, I don't care anymore.

This team with or without Bosh isn't good enough to compete. The fact that you'd have to bring in even BETTER players proves my point.

But I forgot, the dream of many here is simply get to the SECOND round. Fantastic.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:07 PM   #54 (permalink)
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his name is LeBron James
Lol.... I edited my post after I thought about it some.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:13 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Fine, I'm dreaming.

Again, frankly, I don't honestly care. I haven't really cared about this team when it hasn't shown any commitment to winning. We've always done everything half assed, so yeah, I don't care anymore.

This team with or without Bosh isn't good enough to compete. The fact that you'd have to bring in even BETTER players proves my point.

But I forgot, the dream of many here is simply get to the SECOND round. Fantastic.
I know that you like Utah Claudius so I'll come at it from this angle....

How good do you think Bosh would look on that team if you swapped him with Boozer?

Now how good do you think Boozer would look on the Raps?

You're free to be disappointed in the team... we've all been there... but putting the blame at the feet of the ONE guy who's continually busted his ass to get better? Just doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:15 PM   #56 (permalink)
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How much of it has to do with coaching?
look at Houston, doesn't look like they've lost a step and their team is filled with role players, no all stars
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:15 PM   #57 (permalink)
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or Kob

Or Paul

Or Wade

Or KG

Or Peirce

Or Duncan

etc.


And Bargs has really disappointed me this season.

And I like the Raps, not any one player. Raptors.

Bosh could leave and I wont give a shit.

Bargs could be traded a nd ditto.

And right now, on a team with no defence at all, and a "star" player who is gonna want MAX money to stay, this team is better off building aroung Bargs and starting over.

Hmmm... interesting.

Bosh is likely headed for 25 + 11 this season. Those are max money numbers. Like it or not.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:18 PM   #58 (permalink)
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before we start thinking about building around Bargs I want to see him develop some character
He's like Ben Stein on the court
he gotta go to KG camp
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:33 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I know that you like Utah Claudius so I'll come at it from this angle....

How good do you think Bosh would look on that team if you swapped him with Boozer?

Now how good do you think Boozer would look on the Raps?

You're free to be disappointed in the team... we've all been there... but putting the blame at the feet of the ONE guy who's continually busted his ass to get better? Just doesn't make sense to me.
I never once blamed him.

In fact, my point is that both sides of this debate are ridiculous in their claims.

I'm not blaming him for the losses, nor do I attribute the wins to him alone. This entire team is flawed in a way. Do I blame BC? Or do I go higher and blame MLSE?

As for Utah. He'd look fine in Utah. But truth be told I'd take Millsap over him in the Western conference (please note the importance of the Western conference) because he'd be cheaper and allow the money to be spent elsewhere (i.e. SG, bench) so that we can actually build a contender.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:57 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I never once blamed him.

In fact, my point is that both sides of this debate are ridiculous in their claims.

I'm not blaming him for the losses, nor do I attribute the wins to him alone. This entire team is flawed in a way. Do I blame BC? Or do I go higher and blame MLSE?

As for Utah. He'd look fine in Utah. But truth be told I'd take Millsap over him in the Western conference (please note the importance of the Western conference) because he'd be cheaper and allow the money to be spent elsewhere (i.e. SG, bench) so that we can actually build a contender.
What claim have I (a self-professed "Bosh-lover") ever made that could be considered ridiculous?

No one here has said that he's going to be the MVP.

No one has even said that he's a lock for 1st team All-NBA.

No one's pencilling him in for the HOF or claiming that he's a top 5 player in the league.

So what exactly have you found to be so outrageous?


As for Bosh vs. Millsap on the Jazz.... Don't get me wrong... I love Millsap. LOVE him... but he's not a dominant PF, and I'm not sure that he ever will be. Just doesn't have the size or the 1-on-1 moves. He's well-suited to be a "Marion" type player... great in support... but not as a go-to option.

My point about Bosh and his proposed salary is this... look at the salaries that the Magic are paying out right now. D12... VC... Lewis.... and we're griping about ONE guy making the max? If we let him walk it's going to be a blow that it'll take us YEARS to recover from (again). We'll essentially be relying on a lucky draft pick, because what FA worth his salt is going to want to come here (unless we overpay him)?

If Bosh is going to give us 5-6 years of his current play then I consider that well worth the money.
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