Bosh to possibly consider Heat? - Page 2
Old 11-19-2009, 10:13 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Bargnani is not the problem on this team. He's coming along quite nicely.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Bargnani is not the problem on this team. He's coming along quite nicely.
Bosh is an MVP candidate.
Turkoglu/Calderon have been doing what we've expected from them.
Derozan has been really good.
Our bench is one of the better ones in the league (Belli, Wright, Johnson.... Jack).

It either falls on Bargs, or the Calderon/Jack combo.

But to think back to the offseason where people said trade Bosh and build around Bargs... it's ridiculous. I was laughing then, and I'm laughing even harder now.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:19 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Jeeez.

This is just getting ridiculous now.

So Bosh needs a low post defensive presence that needs to be considered a threat on offense not only on the inside so that his man doesnt drop off and double on Bosh(which happens continually with amir on the floor) but is enough of a team player so that he doesnt require too many touches on offense allowing 1 thing to happen:

Bosh to have his room to operate in the paint without another defender in there(if the center replacing Bargs is not at least a legitamate threat on the offensive end there would be no need to step outside for the opposing center leving him there to double up on Bosh)

Find it funny that BC, Gheradini, Triano, Bosh, Jack, many other various announcers/former NBA guys all saying that Bargs is a perfect compliment to Bosh are wrong and that some Dolts on Raptorsforum all saying that they are wrong.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
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What this team needs plain and simple is toughness and grit.

Wright has been injured, Jack has been useless and Evans has been out. When they are all back throughing Evans into the front court mix at 20 minutes per game paired with both Bargs and Bosh is gonna pay huge dividends.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:22 AM   #25 (permalink)
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And I side note, would like to know who exactly people think would be a better pairing for Bosh than Bargs.

Anyone drop me some names.

Seriously.

And dont say Dwight, best center in the league, cause it aint happening.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:23 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Bosh is an MVP candidate.
Turkoglu/Calderon have been doing what we've expected from them.
Derozan has been really good.
Our bench is one of the better ones in the league (Belli, Wright, Johnson.... Jack).

It either falls on Bargs, or the Calderon/Jack combo.

But to think back to the offseason where people said trade Bosh and build around Bargs... it's ridiculous. I was laughing then, and I'm laughing even harder now.
While I agree with it being ridiculous at this point to build around Bargnani I think it is equally ridiculous to place the fate of the team squarely on his shoulder, to blame him for any losses incurred to date. Do we attribute him with every win this year as well? Because if that's the case, and they win 45 games then he should be an MVP candidate based on your reasoning. When I watch the games I see the team losing collectively. Bargnani is more productive than last season and he's doing what the coaching staff asks of him so far...He's grabbing six boards a game, five of them are defensive boards. He doesn't get offensive board because of his role on the team.

Last edited by Apollo; 11-19-2009 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:26 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Apollo, didnt get the memo?

Bosh is infallible. damn near perfect. HOF without a doubt. top 5 pf ALL TIME. Best player in the NBA right now.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:26 AM   #28 (permalink)
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While I agree with it being ridiculous at this point to build around Bargnani I think it is equally ridiculous to place the fate of the team squarely on his shoulder, to blame him for any losses incurred to date. Do we attribute him with every win this year as well? Because if that's the case, and they win 45 games then he should be an MVP candidate based on your reasoning. When I watch the games I see the team losing collectively. Bargnani is more productive than last season and he's doing what the coaching staff asks of him so far...
I attribute every win to Bosh, except 1 game I gave to belinelli, and the Cavs game I give to Bargs.

I do agree that when we're playing well, Bargs is a huge reason why. Never moreso than Bosh (MVP candidate.. ie... best player in the league).

If we could start Bargs at SG it would be a good compliment to Bosh I agree.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:31 AM   #29 (permalink)
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You have no clue.

Would love to see Bosh's numbers paired with Dwight.

I would say about 17 and 6.

Rashard is getting 17 and 6 with Dwight and Rashard does some things that Bosh cant do. Rashard can create and is more of a threat shooting than bosh, and last year had better defensive and offensive ratings than Bosh.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:32 AM   #30 (permalink)
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And I side note, would like to know who exactly people think would be a better pairing for Bosh than Bargs.

Anyone drop me some names.

Seriously.

And dont say Dwight, best center in the league, cause it aint happening.
Bargnani is posting better numbers, both in production and efficiency, than Rashard Lewis has in Orlando in any of his three seasons there. People are blaming Bargnani for not being a low post threat when, if they expect a low post threat on this team, they should be blaming Colangelo for not bringing one in. If you had to tow a huge RV do you blame your car for not having the capabilities to do the job or do you blame yourself for not realizing the car's capabilities and not going out and getting the right machine for the job? And for the record I don't believe they need an elite traditional center to win.

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I attribute every win to Bosh, except 1 game I gave to belinelli, and the Cavs game I give to Bargs.
Its a team game. Bosh posts huge numbers when they win and lose so there goes that theory.

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I do agree that when we're playing well, Bargs is a huge reason why. Never moreso than Bosh (MVP candidate.. ie... best player in the league).
MVP is not "best player", its "most valuable" player to a team in the league. Nash has never been better than Kobe Bryant, never.

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If we could start Bargs at SG it would be a good compliment to Bosh I agree.
Bargnani is a good compliment to Bosh where he is. Bargnani isn't the problem. If you feel they lose because of defense then its on the coaching staff and the players collectively. If you feel its due to rebounding then its on the coaches on the offensive side because they park Bargnani on the perimeter and have no one take his place around the glass; on the defensive end Bargnani is doing his fair share with five per game and as such its on the coaches for not getting the other guys to be more aggressive on the board and on the players for no executing.

Last edited by Apollo; 11-19-2009 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:32 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Bargnani is not the problem on this team. He's coming along quite nicely.
I want that guy to get some kind of character on the court, he seems disinterested and doesn't look like he's pumped
at least Caldy and Bosh show emotion
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:35 AM   #32 (permalink)
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We're going to see how well Bargs does next year as the #1 option
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I attribute every win to Bosh, except 1 game I gave to belinelli, and the Cavs game I give to Bargs.
Doesn't leave many wins left to attribute now does it
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:54 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Why do you assume Bosh cannot work with a center because of Jamario Moon, Anthony Parker, and will Solomon starting?

Those 3 are shit and could not win with Bynum/Gasol or Garnett/Perkins. So there goes that theory. Jose was hurt all last year and JO went out.

Sorry I didn't mean best player for the MVP award ... I meant playing the best.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:58 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I want that guy to get some kind of character on the court, he seems disinterested and doesn't look like he's pumped
at least Caldy and Bosh show emotion

Tim Duncan is going to the hall of fame, potentially the best PF of all-time, and he has a similar demeanor to Andrea Bargnani. Don't discredit him for being cool under all conditions. It doesn't mean he's not into the game, it just means he doesn't show it like others. A player doesn't have to wear his heart on his sleeve to be effective.

EDIT: A little something to help people in understanding the rebounding dilemma.
Toronto Raptors, ranked 19th in rebounding
Name Rebounds/Minute
Pops Mensah-Bonsu 0.571428571
Chris Bosh 0.341067285
Amir Johnson 0.294416244
Rasho Nesterovic 0.275862069
Patrick O'Bryant 0.2
Andrea Bargnani 0.180929095
DeMar DeRozan 0.158139535
Antoine Wright 0.144230769
Hedo Turkoglu 0.138381201
Sonny Weems 0.137254902
Marco Belinelli 0.07860262
Jarrett Jack 0.071684588
Jose Calderon 0.071428571
Marcus Banks 0
Team 0.171249565

L.A. Lakers, ranked 6th in rebounding
Name Rebounds/Minute
DJ Mbenga 0.351851852
Andrew Bynum 0.299435028
Lamar Odom 0.250645995
Josh Powell 0.185897436
Sasha Vujacic 0.179775281
Luke Walton 0.157894737
Adam Morrison 0.153846154
Ron Artest 0.143229167
Jordan Farmar 0.135135135
Kobe Bryant 0.126491647
Shannon Brown 0.108571429
Derek Fisher 0.093645485
Team 0.181040892

Milwaukee Bucks, ranked 1st in rebounding
Name Rebounds/Minute
Ersan Ilyasova 0.322404372
Dan Gadzuric 0.295454545
Andrew Bogut 0.274834437
Kurt Thomas 0.264705882
Hakim Warrick 0.22705314
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute 0.215517241
Jodie Meeks 0.17
Carlos Delfino 0.164772727
Michael Redd 0.14516129
Brandon Jennings 0.134185304
Charlie Bell 0.120300752
Luke Ridnour 0.089473684
Roko Ukic 0
Team 0.19221968


Source: Calculated by yours truely using stats found @ Yahoosports.com

While Bargnani's rebounding rate is lower than some of the Lakers' big men the glaring difference seems to be in the guards. In particular, Jack and Calderon. Its even more glaring when compared to the best rebounding team in the league.

Last edited by Apollo; 11-19-2009 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:59 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Doesn't leave many wins left to attribute now does it
3. But I don't attribute any losses to him.

So 3-0
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:02 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Tim Duncan is going to the hall of fame, potentially the best PF of all-time, and he has a similar demeanor to Andrea Bargnani. Don't discredit him for being cool under all conditions. It doesn't mean he's not into the game, it just means he doesn't show it like others. A player doesn't have to wear his heart on his sleeve to be effective.
agree with that...if you saw duncan last night...calmly posted up hump and forced teh game into overtime. had a nice block on the other play...he stays cool and collected.

bosh is going to consider alot of places, including toronto. still early tho...i think Bosh will appreciate the fact that colangelo TRIED to support him with higher quality of players. will it pan out? time will tell
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:11 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:16 AM   #39 (permalink)
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You have no clue.

Would love to see Bosh's numbers paired with Dwight.

I would say about 17 and 6.

Rashard is getting 17 and 6 with Dwight and Rashard does some things that Bosh cant do. Rashard can create and is more of a threat shooting than bosh, and last year had better defensive and offensive ratings than Bosh.
You won't find a single GM in the league that'll take Lewis over Bosh.

Not one.

So please don't try to even START comparing those 2 players.

If Bosh would have been on ORL last year the Magic would have won the title. End of story.

You think that Bosh's numbers would go DOWN in ORL? Why? This year he's had more scoring help than ever before and his avg has gone UP.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:48 AM   #40 (permalink)
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You won't find a single GM in the league that'll take Lewis over Bosh.

Not one.

So please don't try to even START comparing those 2 players.

If Bosh would have been on ORL last year the Magic would have won the title. End of story.

You think that Bosh's numbers would go DOWN in ORL? Why? This year he's had more scoring help than ever before and his avg has gone UP.
I gues that Orlando would somehow find a way to produce and extra 15 or so shots per game then.

And those are Lewis numbers. didnt make them up.

I am sure Bosh's defensive numbers would be a bit better playing beside Dwight, but one of them is gonna get fewer rebounds and points, and seeing as how Dwight is such an athletic freak and Bosh isnt anywhere near his level, it is not illogical to think that his rebounding numbers would go down.

And as far as scoring numbers, on a team where theiur center scores pushing 20 on dunks and putback, their shooting guard easily scores 20, their SF combos for around 10 or so on any night, and their pg takes about 15, I cant see the team scoring 160 points a night, so either every onther player gets fewer points or Bosh's numbers go down in that department.

Take of the blinders people, look at it from a distance.
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