Bosh Breaks Own Record - Page 3
Old 04-14-2009, 11:27 AM   #41 (permalink)
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because he isnt that much younger and he is light years behind in rebounding, driving, finishing around the rim, drawing fouls, setting up his own jumper, dealing with double teams etc etc. The only thing he really does better then chris is shoot the 3. Sooner or later your going to have to give up on that fairytale and realize Bosh will always be better
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:54 AM   #42 (permalink)
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The only thing he really does better then chris is shoot the 3. Sooner or later your going to have to give up on that fairytale and realize Bosh will always be better
Perhaps but i disagree with this statement. Aside from his long range shooting, Bargnani is better at boxing out his man on the boards whereas Chris simply tries to outjump guys for his rebounds. Bargnani is also a better shot blocker, able to block his own man's shot effectively whereas Bosh is really only a shot blocker from the help side. Bargnani also handles the ball better in traffic, turning it over and fumbling it less often than Bosh does.

It's not inconceivable that Bargnani has a higher ceiling than Bosh.. but he is definitely a slower developing player and if he ever catches or passes Chris it won't be any time soon.

That said if were building around a guy and had to choose between them I'd pick Bosh every time.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:02 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Perhaps but i disagree with this statement. Aside from his long range shooting, Bargnani is better at boxing out his man on the boards whereas Chris simply tries to outjump guys for his rebounds. Bargnani is also a better shot blocker, able to block his own man's shot effectively whereas Bosh is really only a shot blocker from the help side. Bargnani also handles the ball better in traffic, turning it over and fumbling it less often than Bosh does.

It's not inconceivable that Bargnani has a higher ceiling than Bosh.. but he is definitely a slower developing player and if he ever catches or passes Chris it won't be any time soon.

That said if were building around a guy and had to choose between them I'd pick Bosh every time.


not so fast there. Bosh boxes out. He does need to strengthen those legs to help maintain position while boxing out.

Bargnani is going to be a fun C to watch in the future, and Bosh will be nice to watch at PF. Bargnani is going to benefit from Bosh in terms of his offensive game, and Bosh is going to benefit in terms of increased assists and more gas in the tank.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:13 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Okay so he boxed out once I'll give him props for improving his boxing out as he's gone along, but I think Bargnani is already better at it and uses it more...which in part (albeit a small part) attributes to his lower rebounding total. He often clears space and someone else gets the board. I dont' think you'll see Chris do much more to his body...the leg strength he has now is liekly all he'll have until he gets older and it starts to decline. Andrea on the other hand is still getting bigger and it sounds like he's committed to that once again this summer.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:16 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Had to look long and hard for that pic eh?

Bargs is getting much more solid fundamentally on the rebounding front. If you say that he doesnt get offensive boards because he is out at the 3 point line on offense-he is there to give space to Bosh. Bargs has been picking up offensive boards lately when he posts up on Offense.

Bargs can start his drive from the 3 point line-that is something Bosh cant really do.

Bargs has a real nice pull up added to that drive from the 3pt line as well that has become very effective.

Bargs is pretty solid at leading the break, especially for a seven footer.

In terms of man to man defense-I think I would give the edge to Bargs, with Bosh having the edge as a help defender.

Bargs is much farther ahead, almost to a fault at time, in terms of being decisive and not giving a chance for the second defender to come over to him.

Bargs is a pretty solid passer as well, I would say they are even there.

Bosh hasnt really added anything to his game for the last 3 years, Bargs definately has.

The arguement can be made that with better talent around him Bosh will get better, but realistically, only on defense will Bosh get better, his offensive stats are sure to go down with the addition of a solid winger and the continued development of Bargs, because his usage rate will surely go down as well.

edit:
And about drawing fouls, part of Bargs problem is that he has earned no love from the refs yet, whereas Bosh has. Bargs gets hacked alot and has recently been getting a few more calls, closing that gap.

Last edited by Snooch; 04-14-2009 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:17 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I agree that what Bargnani does helps others get boards, and that Bargnani controls more horizontal space than vertical, while Bosh controls more of the vertical space than horizontal.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:17 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Had to look long and hard for that pic eh?
Actually no - it occurred a few days ago. It took all of a minute.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:27 PM   #48 (permalink)
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does dwight howard really follow AB out to the 3 point line all the time?? Or any big C for that matter??? i hate that myth that he is making it easier for others to grab offensive boards because he is bringing the oter big way out, only a moronic coach would put a true rebounding beast of a C out on AB on the 3 point line all game...
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:34 PM   #49 (permalink)
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does dwight howard really follow AB out to the 3 point line all the time?? Or any big C for that matter??? i hate that myth that he is making it easier for others to grab offensive boards because he is bringing the oter big way out, only a moronic coach would put a true rebounding beast of a C out on AB on the 3 point line all game...
No one said that at all.

Bosh gets offensive boards by jumping high and working hard, Bargs dont get many because when he is on the floor with Bosh, Bargs stays outside most of the time to give Bosh room to operate.

Lately though, when Bargs is getting the ball down low after pinning down his man, he has been grabbing a few offensive boards.

There is no argueing that Bosh gets more boards. But it isnt impossible to think that with the continued improvement Bargs has been showing in that area as of late that he couldnt average closer to around 7.

Bosh will always average more boards than Bargs on this team as presently constructed though.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:20 PM   #50 (permalink)
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does dwight howard really follow AB out to the 3 point line all the time?? Or any big C for that matter??? i hate that myth that he is making it easier for others to grab offensive boards because he is bringing the oter big way out, only a moronic coach would put a true rebounding beast of a C out on AB on the 3 point line all game...

We werent' saying that at all... he boxes out his man, keeping him from the ball, but often keeping himself from the ball as well. That's good rebounding fundamentals though. Bosh doesn't do this nearly as often.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:42 PM   #51 (permalink)
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so a 7 footer that constantly blocks his man out, to get other ppl boards?? maybe im missing it... but if your a 7 footer and you constantly have the advantage in rebounding position, you dont need to jump high to get boards. Bosh always got this many boards or close to it, so i dont buy that this area of ABs game is so vastly improved that it's helping chris get more boards, he got more boards 2 years ago, was AB doing his thing then too?? Marion just gets boards, before he got here, and if he leaves he will get boards then too, nothing to do with AB helping. Sorry, i dont buy what you guys are selling.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:47 PM   #52 (permalink)
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so a 7 footer that constantly blocks his man out, to get other ppl boards?? maybe im missing it... but if your a 7 footer and you constantly have the advantage in rebounding position, you dont need to jump high to get boards. Bosh always got this many boards or close to it, so i dont buy that this area of ABs game is so vastly improved that it's helping chris get more boards, he got more boards 2 years ago, was AB doing his thing then too?? Marion just gets boards, before he got here, and if he leaves he will get boards then too, nothing to do with AB helping. Sorry, i dont buy what you guys are selling.
You're not reading what we're selling either. The point isnt' that Bosh is getting more rebounds, the point is that AB is better at fundamental rebounding skills...like boxing out his man. I also mentioned that he boxes out and often someone else actually grabs the board but the point still stands Bargnani is better fundamentally at clearing space and keeping his man from ball than Bosh is...who relies more on outjumping his man for the board.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:54 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Rasho was real good at boxing out but not getting the rebound, aveaging about 6 or 7 a game for the Raps. As a seven footer, but he was OK, Bargs isnt as a seven footer who boxes out his man but not getting the rebound averaging 6 rebounds a game.
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:57 PM   #54 (permalink)
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The whole team barely boxes out and relies on jumping for boards.
I was at the Philly game on Sunday and pointed this out to my wife at least a half dozen times. While it's conceivable that they've gotten better, their fundamentals still stink.
When (if) the defensive rotations get sorted out they'll find themselves in better position to put a body on someone when the shot goes up. As it stands the opposing frontcourt often find themselves alone under the basket when Bosh/Bargs/whoever has to help or switch.
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:33 PM   #55 (permalink)
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GREAT friggin' post.

Has anyone else noticed that Bosh has been avging about 23 + 11 over the past 20 games or so? Or how much better he's looked now since he's actually had some legit HELP in the frontcourt and a healthy PG?

Anyone who still wants him traded or thinks that Bargs will be a better player is just insane.... or just incredibly unappreciative.
um ... he's always averaged 23 and 10 boards, so I don't get your point.

as far as trading him, you can just as easily say that anyone who wants him signed for max salary here has no understanding of the salary cap ,,,
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:46 PM   #56 (permalink)
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because he isnt that much younger and he is light years behind in rebounding, driving, finishing around the rim, drawing fouls, setting up his own jumper, dealing with double teams etc etc. The only thing he really does better then chris is shoot the 3. Sooner or later your going to have to give up on that fairytale and realize Bosh will always be better
ever occured to you that your hate for andreea (which is obviously derived from your irrational hate of colangelo) is blinding you?

Everybody and their mothers know that center take way longer to develop than other positions. All an objective viewer needs to do is look at where Bargnani was 1 year ago and it will be enough to realize what a difference a year makes in the life of a young center. If GMs would think like you, a player like bynum would never get to have a career in NBA ...

Also, bargani is much bigger than bosh, so you can compare their speed. It's like saying that Bosh sucks because douby is faster ... The reality is that andreea is faster among centers compared to Bosh among forwards.

Bosh is better than Andreea now and maybe forever, but you have to be incredibly obtuse to believe than there's no chance this will change in the future.

Last edited by moremilk; 04-14-2009 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:05 PM   #57 (permalink)
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The whole team barely boxes out and relies on jumping for boards.
I was at the Philly game on Sunday and pointed this out to my wife at least a half dozen times. While it's conceivable that they've gotten better, their fundamentals still stink.
When (if) the defensive rotations get sorted out they'll find themselves in better position to put a body on someone when the shot goes up. As it stands the opposing frontcourt often find themselves alone under the basket when Bosh/Bargs/whoever has to help or switch.
This is also true. That's why I really hope to see a defensive-minded SG added to the team, at the very least.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:26 PM   #58 (permalink)
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theres no chance it will change in the future he still doesnt play like a C, so again, that arguement doesnt hold much weight, why does it take longer for a C who camps outside like a guard longer to develop offensively?? Ppl point to dirk, but he isnt a C. It takes C's who bang inside longer to get used to the strength and height of other C's perhaps, but Bargs isnt exactly banging inside all that often. I do like the word obtuse tho
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:33 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Totally blinded.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:39 PM   #60 (permalink)
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snooch, funny coming from u huh lol oh the ironing.... and i dont hate andrea, and i only dislike BC since he is the most spoonfed, hasnt proven anything on his own, let ppl laud him, overrated GM i have seen in my life. AB is a decent player, more then i thought he would be, but to think he will be a superstar one day is dumbfounding imo
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