Bosh or Bargs: Pick ONE BC
Old 09-27-2009, 03:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Bosh or Bargs: Pick ONE BC

Here is a fact that I want to bring everyones way, again. With Bargs quickness and outside shooting he is a PF, not a center. Of course everyone knows this, but is never a big topic of conversation, and is one of the largest problems I see in the raptors. You cannot have your center playing on the perimeter shooting threes for a number of reasons. First of all, you are removing your biggest and hopefully best rebounder from being in a rebounding position (unless he crazily crashes the boards after each shot he takes). Secondly, you crowd the perimeter taking up the room that your 1-3 (or 4) spots need to shoot their three point shots. While some see Bargs outside shooting as a big man as amazing or whatever, I see it as totally useless and actually detrimental to the team.

Overall a team is best when each player is playing at their natural position. I think Bargs problems at the beginning of last year was largely due to the stint he played at the three spot, it totally killed his flow and feel for the game which we all know he is still developing. On the opposite end of the spectrum the longer the Raptors keep Bargs at the 5, the longer they keep developing him in the wrong position.

So BC has to see this, he is a smart guy. He knows that he cant play Bosh at the 4 and Bargs at the 5 for the next five years and truely think that the team is going to compete for anything beyond a playoff spot. The Raptors need a true big man that will keep his offence within the paint and continually be in a rebounding position.

So Raptors fans I think BC knows the best direction of the team is to trade Bosh or Bargs. And with the extension to Bargs this summer for five years, and all this Bosh is gone talk, IMHO Bosh is gone very soon. To Houston for Yao? (edit: this is just an idea being the only real good center in the NBA that anyteam would possibly trade) That would sell out every game at the ACC with the large Chinese population of Toronto.

We don't need Bosh, we need his value to make just one more move.

Last edited by mjchabby; 09-27-2009 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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bosh for yao?.......thats a good one.....
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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So Raptors fans I think BC knows the best direction of the team is to trade Bosh or Bargs. And with the extension to Bargs this summer for five years, and all this Bosh is gone talk, IMHO Bosh is gone very soon. To Houston for Yao? That would sell out every game at the ACC with the large Chinese population of Toronto.

We don't need Bosh, we need his value to make just one more move.[/quote]

They need to keep Yao and his broken-ass foot in Houston. That he has another foot injury is not good news. They will be lucky now if he plays half the games for the rest of his career. At one point, they weren't sure he could play again.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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OK... let's assume that HOU would trade Yao (which I highly doubt would ever happen).... would you be willing to risk having a player that's ALWAYS going to be an injury-risk for the rest of his career due to his ailing feet?

I'm not.

As some have said many times before, Bosh is a multi-year all star AND an olympian AND he's barely what? 25? You don't trade a player like that just when you're starting to put things together. You just don't.

Forget about "cookie-cutter" teams and "traditional" positions..... if we have Bargs and Bosh at the 4 and the 5 and we want some post play and rebounding then BC should go out and find us a 3-man who can do those things in order to balance the equation. Both of our big men are 2 of the hardest covers in the league.... giving that up (if you don't have to) would be a mistake.

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Old 09-27-2009, 04:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I dont see Bargs as a PF.

There are now alot of wuick PF's playing in the league:
Bosh, Amare(sometimes a center), GS' pf's, Griffin, etc and some of Bargs stregnths would be lessened by playing against them.

Against centers he has alot more of an advantage.


The problem is I just cant see Bosh being that great of a compliment to Bargs.


Bargs needs a big body inside to pair with, Bosh needs someone that draws defenders outside(Bargs is great pairing for Bosh) as opposed to a lumbering bigman who draws no defenders outside and clogs the lane.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mjchabby View Post
Here is a fact that I want to bring everyones way, again. With Bargs quickness and outside shooting he is a PF, not a center. Of course everyone knows this, but is never a big topic of conversation, and is one of the largest problems I see in the raptors. You cannot have your center playing on the perimeter shooting threes for a number of reasons.
Yes you can. See also > Utah Jazz
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Old 09-27-2009, 05:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
everybody get off ur arses and vote CB4 to the All Star Game!

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I was kind a with you up until the CB4 for Yao idea (way too risky as he is injury prone). If the Dinos are unable to resign Bosh, then most definitely their PRIORITY should be to try and sign and/or trade for a Center with great rebounding and defensive abilities. This would address the Dinos two biggest weakness while at the same time allowing Bargs to move to his natural position.

If the Raps are gonna let Bosh go, the KEY is to find a great, not good, center who will compliment Bargs and Hedo with Rebs and D.

Personally, I prefer to keep CB4 and focus on adding great role/backup players. Specifically, players at the PF and C positions who can address the Raps biggest weaknesses (Reb and D), while not being total liabilities in other areas. Yes, Evans can rebound, but he is not that good defensively and can't score if his life depended on it. With Rasho, you know you are getting a steady, smart and dependable player, but he really isn't the best rebounder for a center of his size and he doesn't have the best mobility.

Obviously I haven't seen the team play yet, but my guess is that they will be a good team. I like what BC has done to make this team competitive again. He has put together a good core for the next few years (Bargs, Hedo, Calderon, Jack, DD) and has got a couple of young, promising athlete's on the team (Belinelli, Amir).

However, in order for the Raps to be a great team in the East and NBA they need better role/backup players-Evans and Rasho just don't cut it. Right now it looks like Evans and Rasho will be the first and second big men off the bench. Not that I don't like em, I just think if you want to have a championship calibre team, they would be better suited as your third option for a big.

Whether Bosh chooses to stay or go, it is important that BC upgrades the backup positions in order for the raps to take it to the next level.

(I say keep CB4!)

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Old 09-27-2009, 06:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Bosh and Bargs are great together and a defensive nightmare for other teams. Who cares if you take Bargs away from the paint once in a while. We're only really talking offensive end here anyways. He might lose out on an offensive rebound once in a while, it's not like teams get that many of them anyways. Guys like Derozan, Wright and Johnson can swoop in and grab the odd one off of the offensive boards and they can tell Bosh to hang up the floor and look for them while Bargs protects for him, down the floor.

In the defensive end Andrea is still playing close to the basket and therefor it doesn't effect his ability to rebound there at all. That's where you get the vast majority of your rebounds anyways.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by .40 Cal Flakes View Post
I was kind a with you up until the CB4 for Yao idea (way too risky as he is injury prone). If the Dinos are unable to resign Bosh, then most definitely their PRIORITY should be to try and sign and/or trade for a Center with great rebounding and defensive abilities. This would address the Dinos two biggest weakness while at the same time allowing Bargs to move to his natural position.

If the Raps are gonna let Bosh go, the KEY is to find a great, not good, center who will compliment Bargs and Hedo with Rebs and D.

Personally, I prefer to keep CB4 and focus on adding great role/backup players. Specifically, players at the PF and C positions who can address the Raps biggest weaknesses (Reb and D), while not being total liabilities in other areas. Yes, Evans can rebound, but he is not that good defensively and can't score if his life depended on it. With Rasho, you know you are getting a steady, smart and dependable player, but he really isn't the best rebounder for a center of his size and he doesn't have the best mobility.

Obviously I haven't seen the team play yet, but my guess is that they will be a good team. I like what BC has done to make this team competitive again. He has put together a good core for the next few years (Bargs, Hedo, Calderon, Jack, DD) and has got a couple of young, promising athlete's on the team (Belinelli, Amir).

However, in order for the Raps to be a great team in the East and NBA they need better role/backup players-Evans and Rasho just don't cut it. Right now it looks like Evans and Rasho will be the first and second big men off the bench. Not that I don't like em, I just think if you want to have a championship calibre team, they would be better suited as your third option for a big.

Whether Bosh chooses to stay or go, it is important that BC upgrades the backup positions in order for the raps to take it to the next level.

(I say keep CB4!)
Agree with the majority of your post but i think your severly undervaluing Rasho. He was a stud in the defensive end, even last year with Indiana. He brings exactly what we need at the center position, we couldn't ask for more and at the price we're paying him, an extreme bargain. Offensively he still has a decent mid range shot, sets a ton of helpfull screens and makes great heads up passes. Evans is also a pretty decent defender and especially for someone coming off the bench. Our bench will be amazing this year and i'm confident it will be the biggest reason we will have close to a 50 win season.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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This is the best team the Raptors have EVER had on paper
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes you can. See also > Utah Jazz
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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bosh will never be traded for a center of the same caliber, they simply don't exist. unless of course, theres a second coming of Shaq's evil, younger twin or something... and that doesnt seem likely...

if Bosh were to be traded it would be for a decent center and a bunch of picks/prospect/raw-type players... and thats not happening unless the Raps bomb the season and he wants to leave, which @ this point doesnt seem likely...
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This is the best team the Raptors have EVER had on paper
.....Bryan? Bryan Colangelo? Is that you?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:07 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Bosh and Bargs are great together and a defensive nightmare for other teams. Who cares if you take Bargs away from the paint once in a while. We're only really talking offensive end here anyways. He might lose out on an offensive rebound once in a while, it's not like teams get that many of them anyways. Guys like Derozan, Wright and Johnson can swoop in and grab the odd one off of the offensive boards and they can tell Bosh to hang up the floor and look for them while Bargs protects for him, down the floor.

In the defensive end Andrea is still playing close to the basket and therefor it doesn't effect his ability to rebound there at all. That's where you get the vast majority of your rebounds anyways.
I think this year will say a lot about whether Bosh and Bargnani (& Calderon) are going to be able to grow into the kind of players who will impose their will and just die out there. I mean along the lines of the Pistons a couple of years ago where experience.

Bargnani is the one who still worries me. I haven't seen anything in him so far that says I'm going to be a bully, I'm going to wear you down, I'm going to impose my will, I'm going to take over, I'm going to shove this ball down your throat. I can't think of any dominant players who don't have that attitude.
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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.....Bryan? Bryan Colangelo? Is that you?
lol i wish i envy his career
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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If one has to go it should be the guy who's next contract would eat up at least 1/3 of the salary cap.
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
everybody get off ur arses and vote CB4 to the All Star Game!

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Agree with the majority of your post but i think your severly undervaluing Rasho. He was a stud in the defensive end, even last year with Indiana. He brings exactly what we need at the center position, we couldn't ask for more and at the price we're paying him, an extreme bargain. Offensively he still has a decent mid range shot, sets a ton of helpfull screens and makes great heads up passes. Evans is also a pretty decent defender and especially for someone coming off the bench. Our bench will be amazing this year and i'm confident it will be the biggest reason we will have close to a 50 win season.
Your probably right...I might be undervaluing Rasho a bit. But I stand by what I said: the raps need to upgrade their backups at the PF and C position to take it to the next level. Rasho is fine this season as the raps are trying to get competitive again. But how bout the following season when they should be competing to be the elite in the east? Rasho is already 33 and he ain't getting any younger.

The only reason I mention rasho and evans as opposed to other role players is that with these two you know what you are getting. They have been in the league several years and are not going to bring anything new that we don't know about. There is no upswing with them. The other role players on the team i.e. belinelli, DD, Amir, and even wright all have a lot of potential for upswing. We don't know yet how they will play out and how good they can become. IF they pan out the way their potential says they will, then the Dinos, if they keep Bosh will be very good in the coming years.
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If one has to go it should be the guy who's next contract would eat up at least 1/3 of the salary cap.
And lose our best player? Our only allstar? Not sure how you're going to get better by losing your best players. You have to pay to play in this league.
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
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BC has already picked Bargs
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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BC has already picked Bargs
He's picked both because he realizes you need talent at all positions to win...and he likes positionally versatile talent.
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