Bosh and bargnani for Noah and deng?
Old 07-02-2010, 08:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Would you do it?
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Old 07-02-2010, 08:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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in a heartbeat...

given Bosh doesnt want to resign....

even though i think Bargs isnt anywhere near hes ceiling yet...

but i would much rather see Bosh for noah and have a noah/bargs front court...

Last edited by VanCity; 07-02-2010 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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bargs AND bosh, fk no.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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:facepalm:


Are you nuts, or just bored?
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I would likely say yes.
1 thing was definitely Turk would need to be gone and one of the PGs
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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For Bosh and Bargs we could get better then that. So I wouldn't do it.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hell no. Who the hell is gonna score for us?
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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:facepalm:


Are you nuts, or just bored?
Assuming we ask for Noah in return for bosh, and they're saying ok, but we need a C, so we want Bargnani too.

If the alternatives are Bosh for deng, or the above scenario, would you do it?
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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No f__king way
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Assuming we ask for Noah in return for bosh, and they're saying ok, but we need a C, so we want Bargnani too.

If the alternatives are Bosh for deng, or the above scenario, would you do it?
Dude, they have Gibson already. If I was Chicago, I'd ask for Amir as the additional player. And afterwards I'd celebrate the fact that you were actually willing to take Deng's contract. I'd be giving people in the front office high fives because I not only got the best player in the deal but I also offloaded the worst contract.
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Assuming we ask for Noah in return for bosh, and they're saying ok, but we need a C, so we want Bargnani too.

If the alternatives are Bosh for deng, or the above scenario, would you do it?
No
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Dude, they have Gibson already. If I was Chicago, I'd ask for Amir as the additional player. And afterwards I'd celebrate the fact that you were actually willing to take Deng's contract. I'd be giving people in the front office high fives because I not only got the best player in the deal but I also offloaded the worst contract.
gibson is not a C, if they trade noah to us, who's going to play C for them? At the going rate, they might need to look at the NBADL for a center ... I'm sure Colangelo will offer amir instead of bargnani, but what if they insist?

If Bosh decides he wants to go to chicago, especially in combination with wade, chicago will start by offering deng (or gibson), there's no question about that. THe problem with chicago is that we must get some salaries back in order to S&T bosh, so we can't just trade him for TPE. I believe they are about 3 million short for a 2nd max salary.
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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We're not taking Deng. Thats final. Why the hell would we give up even more assets to them. If Bosh wants to play for a superstar than we'll dump Hedo along with him to Cleveland for cap relief and expiring contracts.

and maybe Mo Williams.
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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gibson is not a C, if they trade noah to us, who's going to play C for them? At the going rate, they might need to look at the NBADL for a center ... I'm sure Colangelo will offer amir instead of bargnani, but what if they insist?

If Bosh decides he wants to go to chicago, especially in combination with wade, chicago will start by offering deng (or gibson), there's no question about that. THe problem with chicago is that we must get some salaries back in order to S&T bosh, so we can't just trade him for TPE. I believe they are about 3 million short for a 2nd max salary.
1 - I think you missed my point. If I'm Chicago, I'd rather play Gibson as an undersized C than have Bargnani playing with Bosh. Technically, Gibson is smaller, but he plays bigger. He probably complements Bosh better than Bargs does.

2 - If I'm Chicago, I'm asking for Amir. I'm not sure you caught that. I would be asking for Amir over Bargs. It doesn't matter that Colangelo doesn't want to give up Bargs, because if I'm Chicago, I want Amir. I don't need Bargnani's scoring; my Bulls will have plenty. If I'm Chicago, I take Amir because he works better defensively with Bosh. Yeah, yeah, Bargs is a good one on one defender, but his shortcomings on help defense are worse than the problems resulting from playing with undersized C's like Gibson and Amir. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

3 - No, no we don't have to get some salaries back for Bosh. Why are you suggesting that? Please clarify. I've always assumed you know the CBA very well, so I'll give you benefit of the doubt. Elaborate.
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Trading Chris Bosh for Joakim Noah itself is a huge steal as well. Why the hell would we give them a double steal.
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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1 - I think you missed my point. If I'm Chicago, I'd rather play Gibson as an undersized C than have Bargnani playing with Bosh. Technically, Gibson is smaller, but he plays bigger. He probably complements Bosh better than Bargs does.

2 - If I'm Chicago, I'm asking for Amir. I'm not sure you caught that. I would be asking for Amir over Bargs. It doesn't matter that Colangelo doesn't want to give up Bargs, because if I'm Chicago, I want Amir. I don't need Bargnani's scoring; my Bulls will have plenty. If I'm Chicago, I take Amir because he works better defensively with Bosh. Yeah, yeah, Bargs is a good one on one defender, but his shortcomings on help defense are worse than the problems resulting from playing with undersized C's like Gibson and Amir. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

3 - No, no we don't have to get some salaries back for Bosh. Why are you suggesting that? Please clarify. I've always assumed you know the CBA very well, so I'll give you benefit of the doubt. Elaborate.
Gibson is an undersized pf, there's no way he can play c. Yao and Howard will destroy him. Bargnani is an ideal fit on that team. They don't need rebounding and team defense, with wade on the perimeter. All they would ask from Andrea is to defend his man and knock down open 3s, creating space for wade and rose and Bosh to operate in the paint. Why would they need Amir for?

As far as taking back salaries, what I've read is that they only have about 13 million left after signing oneax contract, so they can't just absorb Bosh in a s&t, they have to
send back some salaries.
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:00 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Gibson is an undersized pf, there's no way he can play c. Yao and Howard will destroy him. Bargnani is an ideal fit on that team. They don't need rebounding and team defense, with wade on the perimeter. All they would ask from Andrea is to defend his man and knock down open 3s, creating space for wade and rose and Bosh to operate in the paint. Why would they need Amir for?

As far as taking back salaries, what I've read is that they only have about 13 million left after signing oneax contract, so they can't just absorb Bosh in a s&t, they have to
send back some salaries.
We're not gonna help them sign two max free agents. Thats a big stretch.
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Gibson is an undersized pf, there's no way he can play c. Yao and Howard will destroy him. Bargnani is an ideal fit on that team. They don't need rebounding and team defense, with wade on the perimeter. All they would ask from Andrea is to defend his man and knock down open 3s, creating space for wade and rose and Bosh to operate in the paint. Why would they need Amir for?

As far as taking back salaries, what I've read is that they only have about 13 million left after signing oneax contract, so they can't just absorb Bosh in a s&t, they have to
send back some salaries.
Oh, dude, dude, dude

1 - Yao and Dwight destroy all kinds of guys. Bargs MIGHT do better one on one against those 2 teams, maybe, but against a bunch of other teams his help defense is a bigger liability than Amir or Gibson, even if the latter two are undersized. So, you pick your poison. If I'm Chicago, I pick Amir and Gibson because at least they fucking rebound consistently. Dude, between Rose, Wade, and Bosh, they will have a shit load of scoring. Yes, someone knocking down 3s would be a complement to their games, I'll grant that, but overall, this is just a bad scenario you've come up with here.

2 - The Raps don't HAVE to take back salaries. When you say HAVE to, you imply that it is a must for Toronto. No, it definitely is not. If anything, it is a leverage point for Toronto. You say Noah for Bosh and tell them to shove it otherwise.

My views on this have changed quite a bit in the past 24 hours because I no longer believe Bosh will sign with Chicago at the same time as Lebron or Wade. He is waiting to see what others do. Bosh wants to win AND get max. Before I thought he might make a deal with Lebron or Wade to split cap space and that would create the risk of Bosh walking outright; it looks less likely now. If Lebron or Wade signs first, then Bosh is the one who potentially gets offered below the max from Chicago. In that scenario, the Raps have leverage over Bosh and the Bulls. In that scenario, BC gets to tell the Bulls and Henry Thomas that Toronto wants Noah and it's a deal breaker. We take Noah's salary and Chicago gets Bosh. Noah's salary opens up the $3+ mill in cap space for Bosh to get his max. That's the only salary the Raps HAVE to take, because passing on Noah is crazy. But the Raps don't HAVE to take anything else.
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:25 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Chicago's not the only team bidding for chris Bosh. There's like 5-6 teams in the mix. You know how many competitive teams there are in dire need of a legit second option for their superstar? More than a few handful. We have some leverage. We're not gonna be forced to take anything we don't want.
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Old 07-03-2010, 02:11 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh, dude, dude, dude

1 - Yao and Dwight destroy all kinds of guys. Bargs MIGHT do better one on one against those 2 teams, maybe, but against a bunch of other teams his help defense is a bigger liability than Amir or Gibson, even if the latter two are undersized. So, you pick your poison. If I'm Chicago, I pick Amir and Gibson because at least they fucking rebound consistently. Dude, between Rose, Wade, and Bosh, they will have a shit load of scoring. Yes, someone knocking down 3s would be a complement to their games, I'll grant that, but overall, this is just a bad scenario you've come up with here.
I think Bargnani is heads and shoulders above amir at the C position, against the vast majority of teams, if not all. Amir is undersized (both height and weight), and can't really defend big centers (and howard and yao were just examples, bynum, bogut, marc gasol, nene, lopez and others would have a field day against chicago. Amir would get 2 fouls in the first 2 minutes against those players). Gibson is just not an option at C - he's undersized as a PF. If gibson stays, they would have to play Bosh at C, but either way they'd be massively exposed against teams like Orlando or the Lakers.
I don't see how this is even a discussion point, Bargnani is so much better suited to that Chicago team. He creates space for all those slashers, he's clearly a superior defender in the post and his rebounding issues would be masked by a team full of great rebounders for their position. And who needs team defense when your SG is a top 10 shot blocker and a lockdown perimeter defender.

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2 - The Raps don't HAVE to take back salaries. When you say HAVE to, you imply that it is a must for Toronto. No, it definitely is not. If anything, it is a leverage point for Toronto. You say Noah for Bosh and tell them to shove it otherwise.
not sure what are you contending here, since you seem to agree with me that we HAVE to take some salaries back. If we sign Bosh for 17+ million or whatever the max is, and they only have 13 million or so in cap space, they must send back at least 2 million or so in salaries in order to make it a viable trade under the CBA. Since they have no players on their roster who make that much money other than deng and noah, any S&T with Bosh would have to include one or the other. Obviously they will offer Deng first, and while we will ask for noah, they will have some options:
1. go after boozer or lee who won't demand the max (boozer/lee + noah > Bosh + nothing)
2. ask for Bargnani or amir to be included in one shape or another

Which is why I started this thread, if they make that demand, do we accept it? Obviously we have the option of playing hard ball and take nothing back but noah, but that's risky (what if wade and Bosh decide to go to miami instead?).
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