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-   -   A BOLD trade idea courtesy of Sam Smith and Swirsk (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/bold-trade-idea-courtesy-sam-smith-swirsk-5831.html)

LX 01-19-2009 11:59 AM

A BOLD trade idea courtesy of Sam Smith and Swirsk
 
Seems like Krazy Ivan is in tune with some guys in Chicago.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_....html?rss=true

Quote:

One of the biggest rumors of late has been the talk of a Jermaine O'Neal trade to Miami for Shawn Marion. It's conceivable as the Raptors want to get rid of O'Neal since he's been—as predicted by many—hurt frequently and without much explosion anymore. Marion has just a year left on his deal, and Miami would get rid of Marcus Banks and his deal through 2010-11. The Raptors, now 10 under .500 after a Sunday home loss to the Suns, are entering desperation territory and it's been said general manager Bryan Colangelo is working Pat Riley hard for the deal. Riley would also have to face that he traded Shaquille O'Neal to take on Jermaine, who makes more money and isn't as effective as Shaq. I find it difficult to believe Miami would do that. But you never know in the NBA. The Raptors have done a poor job trying to get wing players, and even though he is poor in a half court game, Marion would help them. The Raptors are one of several teams fearing the return of an injured player as Andrea Bargnani has settled into a starting four/five spot and with Chris Bosh, Jermaine O'Neal is, at best, now a reserve. So leaks have come out of Toronto of alleged trade possibilities alternatively for Lamar Odom or Josh Howard. Actually, I was most intrigued by a passing thought by my colleague at Bulls.com, Chuck Swirsky. Chuck was in Toronto for a decade and is plugged in there. I haven't talked to him about it, but he suggested perhaps the Raptors should trade Bosh. It's a theory I've heard around the NBA amidst rumors that Bosh is upset with the personnel moves in Toronto and will leave. You occasionally hear the same theory involving players like Amare Stoudemire, that the team may not be able to keep them so why not cash them in for a big package now and rebuild? Because if you lose them—and especially in a place like Toronto, where it's difficult to attract free agents—you're virtually starting over. Teams basically never do that as there's usually less public criticism if a player walks on you, like with Shaq and Orlando, than if you make a bold move first. And it's rare when the team getting the better player doesn't improve more. The risk for taking on Bosh, of course, is that he can leave after next season. So how much can you give up? But if you are willing to take a risk, he'd be a huge coup, say for a team with the potential to add players, like the Pistons. Say they offer some young bigs, expiring deals and a few players and draft picks. With Bargnani and Calderon, the Raptors could be competitive and exciting in the East right away with the right package. Would they take a package from a team like the Bulls of players like Thabo Sefolosha, Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah and Kirk Hirrich? If you put a player like Bosh on the market, then you'd really have interest. There's no indication they are doing that. But it might be a heck of a move. And after all, your team is 10 games under now. Where are you going?
Smith is very much sold on the idea that Bosh wants to leave. If so then BC's hands are tied and he has to pull the trigger. If not then his hands are still tied and he has to make some kind of bold move to get guys around Bosh soon. Somebody who is thought to be untouchable has to go between now and the start of next season. No?

MangoKidHoops 01-19-2009 12:05 PM

Bosh for Sefelosha, Hinrich, Noah and Nocioni? No thanks.

Like I've said, the team should entertain the idea of trading CB4, but this summer will be paramount as to whether we can assemble a team that leads Bosh to believe that we're not too far from contending.

Dr. J. Naismith 01-19-2009 12:05 PM

So with not trying to read into too much, is Sam implying that Chuck thinks Bosh is unhappy with the lack of moves they've made and that Bosh is about to pull a VC? :confused2:

Say it ain't so Chris. :crying: :giggle:

BballWatcher 01-19-2009 12:24 PM

Every team in the NBA comes up with dream scenarios like this, where they unload their flotsam or mediocrity for a disgruntled star. We do the same; let's trade Graham, AP and Kapono for Kobe!

The only way Bosh gets moved is for another star, not more role players. We have enough guys who are not good enough already.

Dr. J. Naismith 01-19-2009 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BballWatcher (Post 122911)
The only way Bosh gets moved is for another star, not more role players. We have enough guys who are not good enough already.

Or, he walks away during the summer of 2010. ;)

INSIDER 01-19-2009 12:30 PM

Bosh may get traded.... no one is really safe, anywhere.
but not for a bunch of scrubs.
c'mon hinrich, nocioni, noah????
barf.
that would be one of the worst trades in history.
the only way bosh is traded is if we get an allstar or posible future allstars (multiple) in return.

MangoKidHoops 01-19-2009 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 122912)
Or, he walks away during the summer of 2010. ;)

True.

If you look at things though rose coloured glasses as a "pro" to that particular deal, Thabo is decent as a wing off the bench, as can be Noah can play the 4-5 off the bench. Nocioni is tough as nails as a 3 and Hinrich can play the 2. Then you make a push for Boozer in the off-season for the 4.

spuriousjones 01-19-2009 12:32 PM

i'm less concerned with the thought of bosh leaving than the belief that trying to get to where the team wants to be by shuffling much less desirable players has a low chance of success and a high chance of bringing in a treadmill ice age.

yes, he could well leave. but i think the money is a very important factor with bosh. that works in toronto's favour. and then there's the surrounding cast, which works against toronto. especially if bc does what most seem to want him to do and go nuts trying to surround bosh with win-now players, if i were bosh, i'd be looking around ina couple years and realize that very soon the players that were brought in would be slipping into the downswing; i wouldn't want to be locked into a team like that.

the bulls wouldn't be a bad partner. they have some interesting talent. and both noah and thomas could at least try to take bosh's place--we'd need a 4--they have the rights to a promising 5 from turkey, wings, expiring contracts...deng's a good player. and they'll have a pretty good pick as well.

i've proposed bosh trades this season with all of this in mind. if new york didn't owe utah their pick, they'd be a better candidate. right now, we'd only be able to do something like bosh and kapono for marbury, gallinari+chandler (unfortunately most of their decent guys play the same position. oh, almost forgot about lee. lee and bargnani compliment each other pretty well) some future picks, and maybe rights to swap (then all we'd have to do is buy late 1sts).

i think new york would be the most confident in acquiring him.

san fran has been my favourite partner for such a deal. we can take one of their fatter contracts crawford/maggette/jackson (maggs and jax have long deals) plus they have pretty good young guys like wright+randolph+bellineli and also azabuki and such. of course people would want beans or ellis but i look at it as by bosh going to a team with beans and ellis plus a couple of those wings i listed, he has a very good chance of wanting to stay: great city, solid core, etc. plus they'll have a good pick they could toss in. and i think they're far enough from the luxury tax that they could take kapono.

portland is another team with young talent. plus lafrentz's contract helps the cap.

anyway, i think its something that should be considered.

INSIDER 01-19-2009 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoKidHoops (Post 122920)
True.

If you look at things though rose coloured glasses as a "pro" to that particular deal, Thabo is decent as a wing off the bench, as can be Noah can play the 4-5 off the bench. Nocioni is tough as nails as a 3 and Hinrich can play the 2. Then you make a push for Boozer in the off-season for the 4.

um, we dont have any money this offseason.
that is unless we make a certain JO for marion swap.

MangoKidHoops 01-19-2009 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDER (Post 122923)
um, we dont have any money this offseason.
that is unless we make a certain JO for marion swap.

Sorry, I failed to mention that in my post - IF the rumoured JO for Marion deal goes down, then we'd have that cash to go after Boozer if indeed Bosh is dealt. my bad.

LX 01-19-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 122895)
So with not trying to read into too much, is Sam implying that Chuck thinks Bosh is unhappy with the lack of moves they've made and that Bosh is about to pull a VC? :confused2:

Say it ain't so Chris. :crying: :giggle:

Yeah - swirsky blogged this -
Quote:

They need a trade. How about a BOLD trade and trade Bosh and bring in multiple players to rebuild? The more the Raps lose do you think Bosh is going to stay past 2010?
Which is just throwing a random thought out there.

If Bosh gets traded for spare parts then what do any free agents want with this team? This really feels like it's do or die time with Colangelo. I worry that he has put too much emphasis on free agency in the future.

Dr. J. Naismith 01-19-2009 02:00 PM

Hmmm .... Chuck's a rebel this year. No way he would of suggested that had he still been here in Toronto. Coward. ;)

Either way, if BC can't do anything this season or this summer to improve the team and we continue to plateau next season, then I say deal Chris and "actually" begin to rebuild properly. :)

Gurk 01-19-2009 03:26 PM

If Bosh wants to leave then I guess we should trade him....I just hope he doesn't pull a VC

The MVP of West Hollywood 01-19-2009 03:29 PM

Damn that's a shitty return. Chuck is a full time Bulls homer now, lol. Offers would have to start at Deng, Thabo, and an unprotected 1st, and that honestly wouldn't be enough

Superjudge 01-19-2009 04:49 PM

heh, players are hilarious "if we lose im leaving".

They NEVER take any responsibility, but when it's goin well, they are all about taking interviews where they are asked about thie "potential MVP" season.

Chumps

Aar_Canada 01-19-2009 05:28 PM

Am I wrong in thinking it's a Toronto stigma thing? This whole, "Yo, I want to stay but I need to know you're going to surround me with a winning team. Come on, make me want to stay, otherwise, I'm off to a crappy team in New Jersey."

If Bosh leaves - where and, more importantly, why? So he can go languish in some shitty market? He's a superstar here, even with his dumb hair.

Blaze 01-19-2009 07:17 PM

honestly i would trade bosh but not for those scrubs i would trade him for like joe johnson and josh smith but like atlanta would do that

Krazy Ivan 01-19-2009 07:22 PM

All I know is that when I suggested that Raps should look into trading Bosh I got called all kind of things... :sigh:

BballWatcher 01-19-2009 08:43 PM

Oh Swirsky. Is there any team you can't become a homer for?

youngLion 01-19-2009 08:45 PM

"Thabo Sefolosha, Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah and Kirk Hirrich". For Chris Bosh? That's the absolute most dumbtarded thing I've ever heard, ever.

No really. Most dumtarded idea ever. It's insane. You could replace Colangelo's brain with the contents of an old dustbuster, give him 8 hits of acid and he'd still laugh at that offer. No ya know what he wouldn't laugh at it; he'd still be offended enough to go over to Paxon's house, slap his wife and rape his dog as retribution for such an awful offer.

Honestly, I get that part of Smith's job is to BS trades, but this is too far.


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