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Old 05-14-2009, 12:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Really, an important criteria ppl are missing in all this Bosh talk, trade, is he worth max stuff is how other players view the Toronto Raptors. Can we really afford to let a guy play his ass off for us, be everything we expected and more, make a name for himself around the league, and walk/demand out.... again?? What star player in the L or star outta college really wants to come to a team that frequently rebuilds and lets their best player go in piss poor deals or for nothing?? There's alot more at stake then just the future of one player, i think if we can sign him it's sending a message to the league, we reward our guys, we will pay if you play hard and stars wanna stay here. After all the predictions that are saying it's 100% sure of Bosh leaving, i think it would be an even bigger statement now, you cant just keep getting stars, shipping em out, rebuilding and expect to win. The plan alot of ppl seem to have is no plan at all, rely on unknowns and have a reputation as a joke team that only euro's wanna stick around with. We need to change the image from the outside imo.

Anyways, just a slightly different perspective i have, on top of the fact i feel given the others in the NBA who have gotten max and numbers wise, Bosh has earned it.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:04 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Even tho I've always had an issue with his 'soft' attitude (when he plays), I have to agree with you.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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There's nothing soft about a guy grabbing 10 boards a game.

You want to talk soft, let's talk about a 7 footer who camps out on the 3 point line and doesnt rebound that well.

But I 100% agree with you Ugo. Good post.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't understand how those rebounds show his toughness. How many of them are offensive, meaningful, or truly battled for??

I can't even bring my self to start explaining his softness as it would be an insult to most of the true Raptor fans' intellect. This is something that is so obvious that it would be pointless to even talk about.

Regarding your Bargs comment:
The kid has more toughness in his pinky finger than Bosh will ever have. .

Last edited by Pistol Pete; 05-14-2009 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I can't even bring my self to start explaining his softness as it would be an insult to most of the true Raptor fans' intellect. This is something that is so obvious that it would be pointless to even talk about.
No need to start with an insult.

Aside from grabbing boards... Bosh gets to the line one of the most in the league. Is that soft too?

If this has something to do with emotion. Bargnani shows little to no emotion like Bosh and neither of them are intimidating. But I guess Bosh is soft because you say so.

I'll take guys that can rebound the ball and get to the line over 7 foot SG's everyday of the week... in any kind of "toughness" test lol.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:30 AM   #6 (permalink)
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btw, i find it amazing all the ppl that love BC as a GM, then go on to say "we should build like the pistons, no star and spread the wealth". Did you guys even watch the teams he built in PHX?? lol Bosh is a perfect fit for the kind of system he likes and the only 1st or 2nd tier allstar i can think of outside of Steve Nash that seems like he wants to play here and is proud to be a raptor.

So many factors that i can only conclude that not offering Bosh a max contract would be a momumental mistake from much more then just on the court. If you dont offer the most loyal raptor ever, who is obv on an elite level in his peers and most of the basketball "brainthrust" in America a max deal, who the hell do you really think will ever wanna come here?? Yea, run him outta town bloggers, haters and bandwagoners, but dont cry on my shoulder as we suck for the next 4 years and attract ZERO interest from FAs unless we overpay them, which i find really ironic since we would have created the whole problem by refusing to "overpay" (quotes cuz i still feel its overpaying, but many here do).

Last edited by Ugo Ferst; 05-14-2009 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Look. I like Bosh. I think we should resign him but not for the max $. What I was pointing out is what I see as his biggest weakness. I will never understand those who say that he isn't (soft).

Screaming and showing emotion does not equate with toughness, in my opinion. Standing your ground, not letting your self being pushed around, standing up for your team mates and getting into other players faces, not getting easily intimidated by players like KG and disappear in games, play with intensity every game, stop being "nice" and play with some attitude, stop shooting so many jump shots and drive to the basket more, bring it against elite teams and then stare down a camera (not just after playing Clippers or Grizzlies), power dunk some more (like he use to in his early years)....I can go all day. To me, these are the things that make you 'not soft' and earn the respect from your peers.

And just because Bargs doesn't show much emotion on the court doesn't mean he isn't tough. Don't forget that playing under Smitch, he wasn't given the right/needed support, plus his style of play is different from Bosh's so I don't know how can anyone compare the two. That's like saying how come Bosh doesn't make more 3's?

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Old 05-14-2009, 04:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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you can get other guys to be the "tough" guys on your team, which is why i find artest so intriging, just because Bosh is our best player does not mean he has to be the emotional or physical altercation leader for us to succeed. Aslong as he gets boards and plays hard, im satisfied, it's not in his personality to be edgey, get that from another source.

BTW how many high scoring bigs get this "soft" label?? alot of them lol u gotta be ron-ron or kg to not be considered soft these days. I do not see lack of effort in Chris anymore then any player in the nba, actually, i see it much less.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pistol Pete View Post
I don't understand how those rebounds show his toughness. How many of them are offensive, meaningful, or truly battled for??

I can't even bring my self to start explaining his softness as it would be an insult to most of the true Raptor fans' intellect. This is something that is so obvious that it would be pointless to even talk about.

Regarding your Bargs comment:
The kid has more toughness in his pinky finger than Bosh will ever have.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

maybe you should start watching Raptors play......
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst View Post
you can get other guys to be the "tough" guys on your team, which is why i find artest so intriging, just because Bosh is our best player does not mean he has to be the emotional or physical altercation leader for us to succeed. Aslong as he gets boards and plays hard, im satisfied, it's not in his personality to be edgey, get that from another source.
YUP. I know and I agree with you. I know he'll never be that type of player, which is why I don't see him on that same level as the rest of the players that deserve the max $. I was just pointing out his biggest weakness.

He's got a lot of strengths which is why I like him and would love to see him stay in T.O.

Also, Artest would be a great addition to this team. But we'd need more than one guy that's 'tougher". We've already tried that with JO, but unfortunately it didn't work out.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A00715890 View Post
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

maybe you should start watching Raptors play......
I don't see what is so funny? and I've watched every single Raptors game this season.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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YUP. I know and I agree with you. I know he'll never be that type of player, which is why I don't see him on that same level as the rest of the players that deserve the max $. I was just pointing out his biggest weakness.

He's got a lot of strengths which is why I like him and would love to see him stay in T.O.

Also, Artest would be a great addition to this team. But we'd need more than one guy that's 'tougher". We've already tried that with JO, but unfortunately it didn't work out.
i think ron-ron really transformed the identity of the Rockets. JO didnt work because frankly he cares mostly about JO and he is a shell of his allstar self. While Ron who seems to have matured is loved by most of his teammates, ppl are willing to go to war for him and his intensity and toughness seems to be contagious, much like the KG effect on Boston. My friend laughed when i said this, but i think Ron-Ron being out would hurt houstons chances more then mcgrady or yao being out ;P anyways, one can dream, ron-ron isnt coming here ;(

btw, i used to think ron was too unstable to be trusted, but i really buy into the new ron ron, he could have easily exploded on kobe and such, he is doing the right thing these days. Like that sports illustrated article said, u respect ron ron or he will get in ur face, u play d or he will get in ur face, JO wasnt like that whatsoever.

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Old 05-14-2009, 04:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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yea. I know. I was going to write about Artest's evolution/maturity, and he really surprised me this season.

I was just using JO's example because he's that last Raptor that I can remember which played with some toughness/grit. I loved that moment when he got into Perkins' face, early in the season.

But, I agree that we should try and keep Bosh for many of the reasons that you mentioned in the original post.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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YES Ugo, I COMPLETELY agree with you.

Have some faith in Chris Bosh people.
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Ugo I agree with your argument. Hopefully the Raps can sign Bosh and hena player to compliment him
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Keep Bosh
for once lets keep a star player
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I don't think Bosh is soft. I think he plays with toughness on the court.... i've never questioned that about Bosh. I do however find that he has somewhat of a fragile psyche. he shows this when he over-reacts to fans, or has mental hiccups in crunch time. I also don't nessesarilly WANT Bosh to get traded this offseason. I'd hope BC considers it if he got a very appealing offer, but i wouldn't look to trade Bosh just for the sake of getting rid of him. Signing him would be a good and safe move for this team - absolutely.

the bigger issues are who we can surround him with and whether or not Bosh actually WANTS to stay here. We can only speculate about the latter.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I think we can afford to lose Bosh.

There is a BIG difference between a guy demanding a trade and us being unwilling to pay a guy the money he wants.

It's not the same.

People aren't going to want to come play here from the States even if Bosh does resign. The only effect it will have is if the team is BETTER.

We resigned Bosh once and resigned VC once and no one was walking around talking about how amazing a city Toronto was to live in (in the US).

Makes no difference, it's substance over form.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think we can afford to lose Bosh.

There is a BIG difference between a guy demanding a trade and us being unwilling to pay a guy the money he wants.

It's not the same.

People aren't going to want to come play here from the States even if Bosh does resign. The only effect it will have is if the team is BETTER.

We resigned Bosh once and resigned VC once and no one was walking around talking about how amazing a city Toronto was to live in (in the US).

Makes no difference, it's substance over form.
Oh and the only way it bites us in the ass is if we trade him because don't think he is worth max dollars and proves that he is on another squad.

That would be bad.

But if someone else signs him for the max and he just clogs up their cap space, it makes us look good, not bad.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If the money he gets becomes a clear problem, then can he not be traded when that becomes apparent in reality? And would we not get more on the dollar back in return in such a scenario? I'm sick of this team constantly promoting the flexibility for future moves that never transpire, because they would of course impact future flexibility. That's a dumb game I have no interest in observing any longer.

And Bosh gets a pretty good number of offensive rebounds. One of the promising things about the team gelling under a system late in the season, was that his abilities to fight for those rebounds was made use of much more. But if a team is allowed to merely clog the lane with five guys, there's no amount of toughness that is going to get offensive boards. It's about much more than Bosh alone right?
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