Bibby to the Raptors? - Page 8
Old 01-06-2011, 04:12 PM   #141 (permalink)
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No thanks. Jose is a really good fit with this team. He distributes and makes the players around him better
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:14 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Based on a few games? Really? Even if you base it on 20 games. Ultimately i don't know if we could do much better at THIS point. Maybe if we're patient and wait until the summer if Jose can stay healthy the rest of the season, but that's doubtful right now.
After last season, Colangelo almost turned Jose into two serviceable bigs, one considered a very good defensive Center. Now that he's playing better, you don't think we could get more than Bibby, a placeholder on a team that isn't performing anywhere near their perceived potential?

I'm starting to think you backed the wrong horse last year.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:16 PM   #143 (permalink)
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have you think it can be a 3 team trade ???

because why atlanta would give any of their big contract for jose.
yes jose has a good year, but he isn't better than john smith, JJ, Al horford or crawford.
So maybe
atl give : teague + pachulia + evans + tpe
toronto give Calderon + dorsey

every one keep their pick, and i think toronto will be happy with teague backup bayless, and pachulmia as backup barg.
evans is an expiring.

atlanta get a true pg and one big. (they don't have enough in fact, and dorsey will have minute behind smith)
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:21 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Based on a few games? Really? Even if you base it on 20 games. Ultimately i don't know if we could do much better at THIS point. Maybe if we're patient and wait until the summer if Jose can stay healthy the rest of the season, but that's doubtful right now.
He's been getting double digit assists lately. He's entering his prime. He's been running the team great lately, without him everybody is lost. It's not easy getting 17 assists when the majority of your team just stands around waiting for the ball.
I'm not saying hang on to him because by the time we finish rebuilding he'll be too old, I'm just saying we should get something better than Bibby in return, even if it's not a PG. The only way we can bring in solid players is through the draft, or trading.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:24 PM   #145 (permalink)
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He's been getting double digit assists lately. He's entering his prime. He's been running the team great lately, without him everybody is lost. It's not easy getting 17 assists when the majority of your team just stands around waiting for the ball.
I'm not saying hang on to him because by the time we finish rebuilding he'll be too old, I'm just saying we should get something better than Bibby in return, even if it's not a PG. The only way we can bring in solid players is through the draft, or trading.

Lately? Entering his prime? WTF are some of you guys smoking?



I'll pay big dollars for whatever it is.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:26 PM   #146 (permalink)
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After last season, Colangelo almost turned Jose into two serviceable bigs, one considered a very good defensive Center. Now that he's playing better, you don't think we could get more than Bibby, a placeholder on a team that isn't performing anywhere near their perceived potential?

I'm starting to think you backed the wrong horse last year.
Wrong horse? Neither are great PG's, but Jose was by far our 2nd best PG last season. I guess some have short memories.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:28 PM   #147 (permalink)
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I think your haterd for Jose is impairing your judgment lol
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:40 PM   #148 (permalink)
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I think your haterd for Jose is impairing your judgment lol
Really? I said Jack was better then him last season, is anyone seriously gonna argue with that? This summer everyone wanted his ass gone. A few weeks into the season there was a thread "Is there any question anymore that Jack is the better PG" and the vast consensus was Jose needed to be traded but he was pretty much untradeable (which is always BS imo, there's always someone willing to take someones shit). I was part of that consensus, i'm just not gonna change my mind like most here after 20 good games at best. BTW i was a Calderon backer until last season when he sucked and got injred yet again, that was enough for me after 5 years of him. It's as if people here think he's an all-star or something. He was ranked 20th in the league a few months ago out of 30 starting PG's yet many here all of a sudden now that we might actually might be able to get rid of his shitty salary which is needed right now, unwilling to let him go. In November most were saying that he should be a backup and that neither he or Jack were bonified starters....this place is seriously bipolar. Yes he's playing good as of late, but if he can be dealt for cap relief (Cheaper, shorter contract) i would be thrilled.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:50 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Really? I said Jack was better then him last season, is anyone seriously gonna argue with that? This summer everyone wanted his ass gone. A few weeks into the season there was a thread "Is there any question anymore that Jack is the better PG" and the vast consensus was Jose needed to be traded but he was pretty much untradeable (which is always BS imo, there's always someone willing to take someones shit). I was part of that consensus, i'm just not gonna change my mind like most here after 20 good games at best. BTW i was a Calderon backer until last season when he sucked and got injred yet again, that was enough for me after 5 years of him. It's as if people here think he's an all-star or something. He was ranked 20th in the league a few months ago out of 30 starting PG's yet many here all of a sudden now that we might actually might be able to get rid of his shitty salary which is needed right now, unwilling to let him go. In November most were saying that he should be a backup and that neither he or Jack were bonified starters....this place is seriously bipolar. Yes he's playing good as of late, but if he can be dealt for cap relief (Cheaper, shorter contract) i would be thrilled.
No one is arguing Jack wasn't better last year, but Jack blew this year too. The only think I'm against you on is your sell at all costs approach to Jose. Colangelo proved by that near trade there is much more value than you are advocating.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:57 PM   #150 (permalink)
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No one is arguing Jack wasn't better last year, but Jack blew this year too. The only think I'm against you on is your sell at all costs approach to Jose. Colangelo proved by that near trade there is much more value than you are advocating.

Sell at all cost?

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It just comes down to sell high while you can or keep him and hope he stays somewhat healthy and that his play doesn't drop off. I'm of the mindset of sell high if there's finally some interest in him, IF the right deal is available of course. For me the right deal means at least getting a better contract (Capspace) in return and hopefully a draft pick.


As for that summer deal, it didn't go through because MJ realized what a stupid move it would have been. Nobody thought in anyway that deal was beneficial for Charlotte. They were gonna get hosed and they realized it before it was too late.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:07 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Sell at all cost?

As for that summer deal, it didn't go through because MJ realized what a stupid move it would have been. Nobody thought in anyway that deal was beneficial for Charlotte. They were gonna get hosed and they realized it before it was too late.
That may be true, but Jose has played much better this year too.

You may state you want a good deal, but moving Jose for Bibby at this point just leaves this team rudderless. Bibby would be coming in as a placeholder, and Bayless isn't ready to run this team either. He's been here for 2 months.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:11 PM   #152 (permalink)
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That may be true, but Jose has played much better this year too.

You may state you want a good deal, but moving Jose for Bibby at this point just leaves this team rudderless. Bibby would be coming in as a placeholder, and Bayless isn't ready to run this team either. He's been here for 2 months.

Besides the first 3 weeks and minus the games he's missed due to injury, sure.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:13 PM   #153 (permalink)
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from an Atlanta board:

Quote:
Calderon is alright but he's not really Playoff tested and would not be a major improvement over Bibby's sharpshooting, extreme ball security, and playoff experience...I'm pretty sure if we are going to move Bibby that we can get better than Calderon.

^^ Switch the names and you'd swear that quote came from here. lol


And look at these doozies

Quote:
I like the Sacramento trade more, but why not go 3 way?

Atlanta gets:
Jose Calderon
Samuel Dalembert
Omri Casspi

Sacramento gets:
Marvin Williams
Zaza Pachulia

Toronto gets:
Mike Bibby
Mo Evans
Quote:
The trade could easily be modified to this:
Atlanta gets:
Jose Calderon
Samuel Dalembert
Omri Casspi
Joey Dorsey

Sacramento gets:
Marvin Williams
Reggie Evans (expiring)

Toronto gets
Mike Bibby
Mo Evans
Zaza Pachulia
RealGM • View topic - There's a 16 page Raps/Hawks trade rumor thread on our board

Last edited by jeffb; 01-06-2011 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:22 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jeffb View Post


from an Atlanta board:

^^ Switch the names and you'd swear that quote came from here. lol

And look at these doozies

RealGM • View topic - There's a 16 page Raps/Hawks trade rumor thread on our board
Those are great finds... pretty funny. I totally forgot how good Bibby is until I realized that Atlanta has been looking for a PG upgrade ever since Bibby has been there.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:23 PM   #155 (permalink)
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He shoots well yes, but doesn't shoot nearly enough for it to matter greatly. He's a good passer yes, but I find even that overrated, to me he's not a dynamic creative passer. He's great at dribbling for 10 seconds and trowing it inside or to another open man and get his assist in a safe manner. His defence has improved to a degree but his D still sucks. Calderon is not an all-star and he isn't a PG to put someone over the top for two reasons, he'd get injured and he just isn't a great PG.
Calderon is one of the best passers in the NBA. He is averaging 9.8 asts in his starts and only 2 players in this league have a average higher then that. How is getting assists in a safe manner a bad thing anyway? he finds the open man and makes sure he doesnt turn it over....isnt that wat teams want from their pg? his ast-TO ratio is around 4 which is the highest in the league and is a very good stat. his defence on some nights has been amazing but on others its been horrible and i still think he is a betr defender than Bibby.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:27 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Those are great finds... pretty funny. I totally forgot how good Bibby is until I realized that Atlanta has been looking for a PG upgrade ever since Bibby has been there.
The funny thing about this is everyone here talks about Jose's impecable knack for taking care of the ball yet he's averaged less mpg this season and averages more TO's. IMO Bibby/Calderon is almost a wash. Both are very good shooters, both take care of the ball, both suck on defense. Jose averages more assists but the salary issue is what makes this a decent move imo. At this point though, i don't think this is gonna happen so it doesn't matter.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:36 PM   #157 (permalink)
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The funny thing about this is everyone here talks about Jose's impecable knack for taking care of the ball yet he's averaged less mpg this season and averages more TO's. IMO Bibby/Calderon is almost a wash. Both are very good shooters, both take care of the ball, both suck on defense. Jose averages more assists but the salary issue is what makes this a decent move imo. At this point though, i don't think this is gonna happen so it doesn't matter.
Mike Bibby is also smaller, older and not a good play maker at all. It's obvious that this team needs someone at the point that can not only distribute the ball but co-ordinate the offense. If Mike Bibby can't even manage to keep a 5 assists average with the amount of talent on the Hawks, what is he gonna do here?
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:49 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Mike Bibby is also smaller, older and not a good play maker at all. It's obvious that this team needs someone at the point that can not only distribute the ball but co-ordinate the offense. If Mike Bibby can't even manage to keep a 5 assists average with the amount of talent on the Hawks, what is he gonna do here?
Everybody wants to rush Bayless into that role.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:58 PM   #159 (permalink)
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I am kind of stunned that there is this much support for Jose, the guy throws a couple alleys a game and suddenly I am supposed to forget how much of liability he is. He is old and passive, he shots 90 % from the free throw line, and seriously can't recall the last time I saw him shooting one. Now Bibby isn't much better but it is one less year, we add playoff experience, and I won't have the listen to Jose telling me for the 80th time, "we need to play 48 minutes".
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:01 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Mike Bibby is also smaller, older and not a good play maker at all. It's obvious that this team needs someone at the point that can not only distribute the ball but co-ordinate the offense. If Mike Bibby can't even manage to keep a 5 assists average with the amount of talent on the Hawks, what is he gonna do here?
Bibby has other ball handlers and distributors on his team:

Joe Johnson averages 5.5apg
Jamal Crawford averages nearly 4apg

If he was here he would have to distribute more because we don't have anyone who can average 5apg, not yet at least in Bayless's case.

If you look at his career he can be the main distributor and for his career is a 15/6 PG.
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