Bibby to the Raptors? - Page 5
Old 01-06-2011, 08:54 AM   #81 (permalink)
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if you want to acquire players that are anything more than mediocre you need to have luck in the draft or you need flexibility to absorb salary. teams might give up good players with bad salaries, but they won't give up good players with good salaries unless you take another big contract as well. cap space facilitates both of these options. if we ever have a hope of getting quality talent we need flexibility to do it.

but for me the value in this exists in just getting rid of jose. he's a good offensive player, but perhaps one of the 5 worst defensive players at his position in the nba. with a poor defensive c and mediocre defensive wings we can't have such an immense matchup problem at the point in every game. it's killing us.

and beyond that it's just time to move on. he hasn't been effective for us over long stretches and we're in a rebuilding phase. he has no value to this team at all, and his contract is long and big. i wish jose well, but there is simply no need to have him on the raps any more. if we can get rid of him for nothing i'd be happy. if we can get a defensive big back i'd be even happier.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:08 AM   #82 (permalink)
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cap space, shmap space.
Seriously, i'd like to be shown that it actually means something with this team.

Money has been poorly spent left, right and center. Sorry if the idea of cap space doesn't get me all excited.

No to Bibby.
So, we're a shit team and you don't want more cap flexibiltity? It amazes me that for the better part of 2yrs many wanted Jose gone and now that he may have some value again we want him to stay even though he's still inury prone, we've gone nowhere with him, he's not an all-star or anything. Sorry but a bad team needs capspace to have any shot at getting better and we're not going anywhere with Jose as our starter. And we wonder why ourt sports teams are mediocre. Fans in this city fall in love with mediocre - decent players and love to settle.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:54 AM   #83 (permalink)
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So, we're a shit team and you don't want more cap flexibiltity? It amazes me that for the better part of 2yrs many wanted Jose gone and now that he may have some value again we want him to stay even though he's still inury prone, we've gone nowhere with him, he's not an all-star or anything. Sorry but a bad team needs capspace to have any shot at getting better and we're not going anywhere with Jose as our starter. And we wonder why ourt sports teams are mediocre. Fans in this city fall in love with mediocre - decent players and love to settle.
I disagree with you. As much as i disliked Calderon last year, hes come back to form, and is playing like a top point guard in the NBA.

I say we keep him, as he can be that starting point guard on a very very good team as long as we put better players around him, and good defense in the middle (which is inconsistent right now)
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:07 AM   #84 (permalink)
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I disagree with you. As much as i disliked Calderon last year, hes come back to form, and is playing like a top point guard in the NBA.

I say we keep him, as he can be that starting point guard on a very very good team as long as we put better players around him, and good defense in the middle (which is inconsistent right now)
Well there are two trains of thought, he's playing well so let's keep him OR he's finally raised his stock a little even though he's still injury prone so let's trade him while we can and get rid of our worst contract. IMO Jose is not a top NBA PG as you say. I thought he should be traded before this season and a dozen good starts later isn't gonna change my mind, especially considering he's once again fighting injuries.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:11 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Well there are two trains of thought, he's playing well so let's keep him OR he's finally raised his stock a little even though he's still injury prone so let's trade him while we can and get rid of our worst contract. IMO Jose is not a top NBA PG as you say. I thought he should be traded before this season and a dozen good starts later isn't gonna change my mind, especially considering he's once again fighting injuries.
There just aren't many point guards that can shoot like him, pass like him, have basketball iq like him, can play pick and roll like him...and his defense has been much better this year.

Im a firm believer that Jose can take a team like Atlanta over the top, or at least in the conversation.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:20 AM   #86 (permalink)
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There just aren't many point guards that can shoot like him, pass like him, have basketball iq like him, can play pick and roll like him...and his defense has been much better this year.

Im a firm believer that Jose can take a team like Atlanta over the top, or at least in the conversation.
He shoots well yes, but doesn't shoot nearly enough for it to matter greatly. He's a good passer yes, but I find even that overrated, to me he's not a dynamic creative passer. He's great at dribbling for 10 seconds and trowing it inside or to another open man and get his assist in a safe manner. His defence has improved to a degree but his D still sucks. Calderon is not an all-star and he isn't a PG to put someone over the top for two reasons, he'd get injured and he just isn't a great PG.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:31 AM   #87 (permalink)
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He shoots well yes, but doesn't shoot nearly enough for it to matter greatly. He's a good passer yes, but I find even that overrated, to me he's not a dynamic creative passer. He's great at dribbling for 10 seconds and trowing it inside or to another open man and get his assist in a safe manner. His defence has improved to a degree but his D still sucks. Calderon is not an all-star and he isn't a PG to put someone over the top for two reasons, he'd get injured and he just isn't a great PG.
dude has value. he's a guy with a very specific skill set that would be a perfect fit on teams with good defensive foundations, be it strong wing defenders and/or strong post defenders. Atlanta has great athletes at every position and i think he'd thrive there. he's ideal for the triangle in LA.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:31 AM   #88 (permalink)
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He shoots well yes, but doesn't shoot nearly enough for it to matter greatly. He's a good passer yes, but I find even that overrated, to me he's not a dynamic creative passer. He's great at dribbling for 10 seconds and trowing it inside or to another open man and get his assist in a safe manner. His defence has improved to a degree but his D still sucks. Calderon is not an all-star and he isn't a PG to put someone over the top for two reasons, he'd get injured and he just isn't a great PG.
I disagree with you Jeff i think jose has been playing the point guard position beautifully.

/back and forth.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:32 AM   #89 (permalink)
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He shoots well yes, but doesn't shoot nearly enough for it to matter greatly. He's a good passer yes, but I find even that overrated, to me he's not a dynamic creative passer. He's great at dribbling for 10 seconds and trowing it inside or to another open man and get his assist in a safe manner. His defence has improved to a degree but his D still sucks. Calderon is not an all-star and he isn't a PG to put someone over the top for two reasons, he'd get injured and he just isn't a great PG.
you're right, he is severely injury-prone... but he runs the offence sp much better than Bayless at this time. If we trade him away, we better be ready to watch some frustrated big men that don't see the ball enough. That isn't good for anyone's development.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:57 AM   #90 (permalink)
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you're right, he is severely injury-prone... but he runs the offence sp much better than Bayless at this time. If we trade him away, we better be ready to watch some frustrated big men that don't see the ball enough. That isn't good for anyone's development.
meh. Bargnani will get his touches regardless of who's distributing the ball, by design. davis and amir haven't commanded many touches in the first place - they still manage to be productive. if those two guys started asking for the ball we'd have trouble. besides, jose's never really been the type of point guard to create easy buckets for bigs.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:16 AM   #91 (permalink)
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meh. Bargnani will get his touches regardless of who's distributing the ball, by design. davis and amir haven't commanded many touches in the first place - they still manage to be productive. if those two guys started asking for the ball we'd have trouble. besides, jose's never really been the type of point guard to create easy buckets for bigs.
Not meh.

Did you even watch us play without Jose we were god awful.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:16 AM   #92 (permalink)
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meh. Bargnani will get his touches regardless of who's distributing the ball, by design. davis and amir haven't commanded many touches in the first place - they still manage to be productive. if those two guys started asking for the ball we'd have trouble. besides, jose's never really been the type of point guard to create easy buckets for bigs.
Amir Johnson would strongly disagree, along with the ghost of Bosh.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:20 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Amir Johnson would strongly disagree, along with the ghost of Bosh.
bosh and Calderon did not run a good pick and roll consistently. Calderon was very good at dumping it into CB and watching CB catch and hold. i'll give you amir johnson, though he tends to get the majority of his points off of garbage buckets.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:20 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Not meh.

Did you even watch us play without Jose we were god awful.
+1
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:21 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Not meh.

Did you even watch us play without Jose we were god awful.
not disputing that.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:32 AM   #96 (permalink)
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you're right, he is severely injury-prone... but he runs the offence sp much better than Bayless at this time. If we trade him away, we better be ready to watch some frustrated big men that don't see the ball enough. That isn't good for anyone's development.
Big men? Sorry, but other then Bargnani no plays should be run for our bigs. Which Bigs would be frustrated exactly? The only young players that should have plays run for them are Derozan and to a lesser degree Bayless who can create for himself.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:40 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Big men? Sorry, but other then Bargnani no plays should be run for our bigs. Which Bigs would be frustrated exactly? The only young players that should have plays run for them are Derozan and to a lesser degree Bayless who can create for himself.
Yikes. If you haven't watched, Amir gets plays run for him, and eventually Davis should be lookiing for some too.... I'm not saying alot, but Jose definitely gets them involved in better situations than Bayless at the current time.

I'm not against trading Jose, but if healthy, he is a big upgrade over Bayless... who should be given plenty of time before we heap the pressure of starting minutes on him. Allow him to grow.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:41 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Amir Johnson would strongly disagree, along with the ghost of Bosh.
Please, Amir gets most of his points in transition or off rebounds. As for Bosh, jose would dribble for 10 seconds throw it to Bosh in the post, Bosh would then hold onto the ball for 7 seconds and take a jumper. Sorry but Jose didn't create that much for Bosh. If anything he threw it into Bosh way to much at the detriment of our wings and Bargs and it became unbelievably predictable.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:43 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Please, Amir gets most of his points in transition or off rebounds. As for Bosh, jose would dribble for 10 seconds throw it to Bosh in the post, Bosh would then hold onto the ball for 7 seconds and take a jumper. Sorry but Jose didn't create that much for Bosh. If anything he threw it into Bosh way to much at the detriment of our wings and Bargs and it became unbelievably predictable.
+1 But you can't argue that he runs the team better at this juncture

Last edited by carp; 01-06-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:52 AM   #100 (permalink)
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+1 But you can't argue that he runs the team better at this juncture
Sure. But where is it getting us. Is he gonna be here in 2.5 years after his contract ends? If not and his stock is on the rise, what do wait for especially considering his inkjury woes. Eveytime I watch Calderon he's usually predictable and I find him to be somewhat uncreative and robotic, almost as if everything he does is choreographed and he hates to deveate. JMHO
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