Bibby to the Raptors? - Page 11
Old 01-07-2011, 12:03 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Dude, my view point on this is well documented and I've stated it several times and what I'm saying shouldn't exactly be shocking to you since it's been said by other people as well numerous times. It's nothing new. I've said he's overrated around here and why I think so. Don't like it or disagree with it good for you, but to say that I don't know much about basketball because you disagree with me.....seriously, get over yourself. Why the fuck would I have to defend my opinion to you anyway?
Oh, beyond "Jose sucks"....or...'Jose is a terrible defender'....

Yeah, THOSE REALLY show something in terms of why he may struggle defensively etc.

And you're on a message board where debates happen always. I'd like it, just for once, that you actually defend it with some sort of evidence and not conjecture, or emoticon or something along those lines.

Instead, all I see is a former hockey fan, who was jilted by the game and talking about basketball when all he really knew was hockey in the first place.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:03 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Evidence? I've stated numerous times I think his passing skills are overrated here and why. Agree or disagree, it's an opnion. Someone else on here has stated he's overrated, why don't you ask him for evidence on his opinion.
I've yet to see or read this evidence.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #203 (permalink)
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He's not really helping us, but he's not the biggest problem either. I dont' disagree with that. We're a mess right now and I've been pining for a dominant wing player for years...and that's precisely why I don't want to pay 8mill+ for Jose...it's money that needs to be spent on the SG position. Obviously it's not as easy as simply allotting money for one...but BC has never put an emphasis on that position...he's been big and PG and hasn't filled either spot with the ideal candidate.
But I don't place the blame on Jose really for that.

I'll say this is why BC needs to probably be let go because his philosophy of team building is some what skewered.

The only way we're getting that wing player is through the draft right now. I'd personally just wait for Jose to expire or wait till there's year left on the deal because that's when I see us being competitive again.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:08 PM   #204 (permalink)
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That was 2 years ago.

The way I look at the PG position is pretty simple.

Does he hurt me offensively? Does he get the ball to the right people? Does he run the offence?

Again I will say, that pair him up with a stud 2 or 3 and he's fine. We've put WAY WAY WAY too much emphasis on PG's yet really the last team to win an NBA Championship were the Lakers and they had Derek Fisher at PG.

You win in this league with a pretty simple formula. Have a dominant big and have a dominant wing player. As nice as Chris Paul, Steve Nash and Deron Williams are they haven't won anything in their careers. All they do is allow you to cheap out on talent elsewhere as they have the ability to elevate the play of others but not win rings.

Dominant big and dominant wing work. It's proven time and time and time again.

That's why I don't see why there's all this fuss over Calderon. He does what a PG is SUPPOSED to do. Get other guys going offensively. He isn't assertive on offence because he plays the position like a textbook. I have absolutely NO problem with that. It's his job.

My biggest knock on Calderon is he's never been healthy.

It's not his defence. When he's pushing himself, he's decent. Put him in a strong defensive system and you'd likely not notice him.

Jose is NOT the problem on this team. I can list a slew of bigger problems on this team.
This is very easy to agree with..... It's been a long time since we've had a good SG beside our PG. I miss Vince... and I don't care who laughs. I'm tired of seeing guys of the talent level of Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon, Antoine Wright, Sunny Weems, Joey Graham..... hell, I miss Jalen Rose.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:11 PM   #205 (permalink)
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But I don't place the blame on Jose really for that.

I'll say this is why BC needs to probably be let go because his philosophy of team building is some what skewered.

The only way we're getting that wing player is through the draft right now. I'd personally just wait for Jose to expire or wait till there's year left on the deal because that's when I see us being competitive again.
I don't think it's skewered at all.... he thought DD was going to be that dynamic wing player. How is that not part of your set formula for winning championships?
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:23 PM   #206 (permalink)
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Oh, beyond "Jose sucks"....or...'Jose is a terrible defender'....

Yeah, THOSE REALLY show something in terms of why he may struggle defensively etc.

And you're on a message board where debates happen always. I'd like it, just for once, that you actually defend it with some sort of evidence and not conjecture, or emoticon or something along those lines.

Instead, all I see is a former hockey fan, who was jilted by the game and talking about basketball when all he really knew was hockey in the first place.
Obviously you haven't read a thing I've said in this thread because I've stated numerous times why I think he's overrated and it's an opinion. I barely if at all said anything about his defence or that "Jose sucks". The funny thing is you think I know nothing and obviously think I'm beneath you, so why continue engaging me in conversation? Obviously I'm a waste of your time. What's the point exactly, makes you look stupid to say I know nothing and you don't take anything I say seriously yet continue to reply to what I say just to say that I know nothing. Why don't you ask Sick Wicked and Nasty why he thinks Jose's overrated, maybe you'll get a more satisfactory answer that you can stomach and just ignore me.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:27 PM   #207 (permalink)
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This team needs an elite pg to stay relevant. You can look at the Lakers philosophy, but how many Kobe Bryant's are there in the world? Good luck finding a sg of that talent. The only way to build a championship calibre team with this team is to build a team with starters that are above average through 1-5 ie. Detroit Pistons.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:29 PM   #208 (permalink)
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And good luck finding an elite wing player. Doesn't look like there will be any in the next couple of drafts, nor any that will come via free agency.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:37 PM   #209 (permalink)
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you guys are bitches behind computer screens anyway. just agree to disagree already...

/exit
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:38 PM   #210 (permalink)
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you guys are bitches behind computer screens anyway. just agree to disagree already...

/exit
and you are...?
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:43 PM   #211 (permalink)
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But I don't place the blame on Jose really for that.

I'll say this is why BC needs to probably be let go because his philosophy of team building is some what skewered.

The only way we're getting that wing player is through the draft right now. I'd personally just wait for Jose to expire or wait till there's year left on the deal because that's when I see us being competitive again.
It's not Jose's fault he's not the right fit for this team...it's BC's totally! I can't agree more. Jose does what he does...he played hard when he was healthy and earned an undeserved contract...none of that is his fault. I'm happy for the guy frankly. I fully blame BC for the current situation...but what can ya do? This is our team like it or lump it
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:44 PM   #212 (permalink)
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you guys are bitches behind computer screens anyway. just agree to disagree already...

/exit
and cue the bitch move..... hahahaha
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:45 PM   #213 (permalink)
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The only thing I will blame Jose for is his lack of committment to the gym. I think he could build up his body a bit to become more of an effective defender and to help keep himself healthy. One of the reasons Nash and Stockton(two other medium sized white pg's) were able to be so effective is how much care they took with their bodies. They had the strenght and endurance to have longevity. Jose is a bit soft in this regard.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #214 (permalink)
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It's not Jose's fault he's not the right fit for this team...it's BC's totally! I can't agree more. Jose does what he does...he played hard when he was healthy and earned an undeserved contract...none of that is his fault. I'm happy for the guy frankly. I fully blame BC for the current situation...but what can ya do? This is our team like it or lump it
Actually, his point was that Jose would be worth the contract if he wasn't so injury-prone... how could BC have predicted that? You're giving undeserved criticism where it should be reserved... lol....
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:46 PM   #215 (permalink)
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The only thing I will blame Jose for is his lack of committment to the gym. I think he could build up his body a bit to become more of an effective defender and to help keep himself healthy. One of the reasons Nash and Stockton(two other medium sized white pg's) were able to be so effective is how much care they took with their bodies. They had the strenght and endurance to have longevity. Jose is a bit soft in this regard.
I'd agree with this.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:52 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Actually, his point was that Jose would be worth the contract if he wasn't so injury-prone... how could BC have predicted that? You're giving undeserved criticism where it should be reserved... lol....
Okay, well I dont' agree he's worth the contract even if he played 82 a year... so on that we disagree.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:54 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Okay, well I dont' agree he's worth the contract even if he played 82 a year... so on that we disagree.
I'd agree he's not worth 10M a year.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:34 PM   #218 (permalink)
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I'd agree he's not worth 10M a year.
He's not really worth much more then the MLE imo.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:48 PM   #219 (permalink)
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I'm more annoyed by Jose's salary than anything about his game. I've been pretty consistent about that. If Jose made MLE level money, he'd be one of the best 6th men in the league, and there would be plenty of teams looking to take him. His defense is very mediocre, and you can see that when he plays a playoff team's PG, but it's not a huge issue against second units or lesser PG who don't look to penetrate as often.

His salary fucking sucks! When you're talking trades with teams hovering near or over the luxury tax, that extra $4 mill on Jose's salary is probably a killer. I wouldn't be surprised if it ruined a couple of deals that otherwise would have gone through. It sucks for both sides, because the contender has to worry about luxury tax payments and Colangelo has to appease those teams somehow by taking back salary, if there is even a contract worth taking back. Smells like a deal killer. If Jose made $6 mill, I bet the Lakers would have definitely traded for him last year. But at $10 mill, Jose's not as desireable, so you go out and get a guy like Blake.

Edit - and if people don't think that the high spenders care about luxury tax payments, they do when we're talking about role players. Heck, the Lakers even low-balled Odom and almost lost him. The Lakers worked hard to shed Sasha's contract. The Celts low-balled Glen Davis a couple of years ago. They do care.

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Old 01-07-2011, 02:57 PM   #220 (permalink)
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If Jose was still 50/40/90, he might still be worth his contract even in trades. But he's a backup. And backups can't be paid that much.

Only way possible though is if you have a starting PG who hardly makes any money. Because as a backup, he's very useful.
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