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-   -   Best prospect DD, Val or ED? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/best-prospect-dd-val-ed-21010.html)

Blaze 08-28-2011 03:01 PM

Best prospect DD, Val or ED?
 
I saw this on RealGM and Val was winning by a lot, which in my opinion is wrong. Val is still totally unproven and while I still see his potential it's not as much as Demar's. I would say Demar first, Val second and Ed last but it could just as easily be Ed second and Val last. Considering how much people were mad too about Val being drafted, I find it funny that they think so highly of him now.

jj33 08-28-2011 03:04 PM

Val is the highest pick of those, Won't be surprised if he is voted best prospect!

Dark Knight 08-28-2011 03:10 PM

A better question would be who is the worse prospect?

jeffb 08-28-2011 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight (Post 568011)
A better question would be who is the worse prospect?

how is that a better question?

Dark Knight 08-28-2011 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 568012)
how is that a better question?

Maybe not who is the worse prospect, but the one with the least potential. If that was the case, Ed would get my vote.

carp 08-28-2011 03:25 PM

Val is the best prospect of the three. The C position is the hardest to fill and both DeRozan and Davis have yet to show that they stand out among their peers in terms of positional prospects. I'd say DeRozan second, Davis third.

jeffb 08-28-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 568014)
Val is the best prospect of the three. The C position is the hardest to fill and both DeRozan and Davis have yet to show that they stand out among their peers in terms of positional prospects. I'd say DeRozan second, Davis third.

Among their peers? Among his draft class at his position didn't Ed Davis come close to leading all rookies at his position in double doubles and when he started he averaged 11/10/1, leading his team in double doubles.

Six months ago ESPN said Ed Davis looks like the steal of the 2010 draft. IMO all three of these players have good to very good potential. But Val is the biggest unknown of all three when it comes to playing in the NBA and he plays at a position that is the most difficult to adapt to in the league and takes the longest to develop.

Blaze 08-28-2011 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 568016)
Among their peers? Among his draft class at his position didn't Ed Davis come close to leading all rookies at his position in double doubles and when he started he averaged 11/10/1, leading his team in double doubles.

Six months ago ESPN said Ed Davis looks like the steal of the 2010 draft. IMO all three of these players have good to very good potential. But Val is the biggest unknown of all three when it comes to playing in the NBA and he plays at a position that is the most difficult to adapt to in the league and takes the longest to develop.

My thoughts exactly, and how often is a player thought to be the next whoever and yet become busts in the NBA. It's simply because the NBA is a different beast.

fk24 08-28-2011 04:40 PM

Val hasn't played against NBA calibre talent yet so I'll rate him 3rd.

carp 08-28-2011 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 568016)
Among their peers? Among his draft class at his position didn't Ed Davis come close to leading all rookies at his position in double doubles and when he started he averaged 11/10/1, leading his team in double doubles.

Six months ago ESPN said Ed Davis looks like the steal of the 2010 draft. IMO all three of these players have good to very good potential. But Val is the biggest unknown of all three when it comes to playing in the NBA and he plays at a position that is the most difficult to adapt to in the league and takes the longest to develop.

What if I said I had a different view of what his peers represented? Would you still be so quick to disagree? I do in fact look at other variables besides draft class. You may not, but that's cool too. I'm not interested in comparing Ed against the guards in his class though I'd consider Monroe, Cousins and Favors among his peers, two of which I'd consider ahead of him at this point. Davis may have been a great grab at 13 but that is actually irrelevant to this thread question.

jeffb 08-28-2011 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 568025)
What if I said I had a different view of what his peers represented? Would you still be so quick to disagree? I do in fact look at other variables besides draft class. You may not, but that's cool too. I'm not interested in comparing Ed against the guards in his class though I'd consider Monroe, Cousins and Favors among his peers, two of which I'd consider ahead of him at this point. Davis may have been a great grab at 13 but that is actually irrelevant to this thread question.

Also take into consideration he missed his first training camp and first 5 weeks of the season and then averaged a double double when playing starters minutes and i'd say he holds his own just fine especially when you look at the fact that he a lot smaller then those guys you mentioned. IMO he has the potential to be better then Cousins just on brains alone (Cousins is a blockhead). Derrick Favors averaged 6.8/5.3 in 20mpg so to say he's better then Davis is a stretch to say the least. I would take Davis over Monroe as well who averaged less rebounds in more mpg and less blocks as well and doesn't have the basketball IQ that Davis has. If he can add 20lbs he'll eventually be one of the better PF's in the league imo.

js12 08-28-2011 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk24 (Post 568022)
Val hasn't played against NBA calibre talent yet so I'll rate him 3rd.

Agreed.

I like what I heard and seen of JV from the tournies in Europe. But we have to watch him in the NBA first before we can judge.

carp 08-28-2011 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 568029)
Also take into consideration he missed his first training camp and first 5 weeks of the season and then averaged a double double when playing starters minutes and i'd say he holds his own just fine especially when you look at the fact that he a lot smaller then those guys you mentioned. IMO he has the potential to be better then Cousins just on brains alone (Cousins is a blockhead). Derrick Favors averaged 6.8/5.3 in 20mpg so to say he's better then Davis is a stretch to say the least. I would take Davis over Monroe as well who averaged less rebounds in more mpg and less blocks as well and doesn't have the basketball IQ that Davis has. If he can add 20lbs he'll eventually be one of the better PF's in the league imo.

I didn't say Favors was better.... lol.

It's debatable between davis and monroe.... I don't think enough raps fans have seen enough to make that decision objectively. As for Cousins, blockhead or not, he's a beast.

jeffb 08-28-2011 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 568031)
I didn't say Favors was better.... lol.

It's debatable between davis and monroe.... I don't think enough raps fans have seen enough to make that decision objectively. As for Cousins, blockhead or not, he's a beast.

He is a beast, but also a blockhead. I'll take Davis defensive awareness, IQ and instincts though. Like i said if he can add 20lbs he'll be one of the best PF's in the NBA at some point.

Claudius 08-28-2011 06:22 PM

Highest upside relative to his age, experience etc. For me it's Val. His footwork is very impressive for a kid his age, he doesn't shy from contact and he plays like a 'man' (and what I mean, is that he isn't intimidated by who he plays with, his IQ is high etc.) Defensively, I think he's already that Bargnani (sorry Bargnani supporters, but it's true) and if he stepped in today, he'd get called on BS calls, but wouldn't hurt us.

So, under the criteria I'm going with Val.

With the next two, I'd go with Ed. Every time I've watched this kid and the few times I saw him live, I thought to myself, he plays like a leader out there, a guy who sets a tone. Now, it didn't happen often, but sometimes, you'd see him out there and he'd be the guy taking the charge, grabbing the rebounds, getting the blocks. The guy working defensively and not backing down (thinking about it now I'm excited to see he and Val paired up) from anyone. He plays like a vet almost. Defensively, I think he'll be more valuable to us. I think that's why I'm excited to see him paired with Val. Under the right coaching (why Casey is a good choice), we could have shut down pair of low post defenders.

Now, Ed is still very raw offensively (gotta work on a short jumper, his FT's) but I call that 'easy' stuff to learn. You gotta put the hours in the gym in, but work hard enough, and it will come. He's got a lot of the intangibles so I'd place him second.

DeRozan for me, is a clear third (and I know someone will read this and say, what a hater, he's hating on DeRozan blah, blah, blah and that's not it at all). I've been a big DeRozan supporter for awhile now. But, out of the three, he's got the lowest IQ and he plays with too much tunnel vision. Now, apart of that could be due to who he plays with, but he plays too selfishly and forces too often (again, there could be legit reasons for that) that I'm having a hard time telling if it's just a part of his game OR if it's part of his mental makeup. And defensively, I think he has the least amount of potential, because of his size. That's not to say he'll always be a poor defender, but he's got to make adjustments his next season, otherwise, we'll have to make some tougher decisions....

Superjudge 08-28-2011 06:43 PM

Impossible to tell.

I think I chose Demar.

I don't know....

jeffb 08-28-2011 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 568033)
Highest upside relative to his age, experience etc. For me it's Val. His footwork is very impressive for a kid his age, he doesn't shy from contact and he plays like a 'man' (and what I mean, is that he isn't intimidated by who he plays with, his IQ is high etc.) Defensively, I think he's already that Bargnani (sorry Bargnani supporters, but it's true) and if he stepped in today, he'd get called on BS calls, but wouldn't hurt us.

So, under the criteria I'm going with Val.

With the next two, I'd go with Ed. Every time I've watched this kid and the few times I saw him live, I thought to myself, he plays like a leader out there, a guy who sets a tone. Now, it didn't happen often, but sometimes, you'd see him out there and he'd be the guy taking the charge, grabbing the rebounds, getting the blocks. The guy working defensively and not backing down (thinking about it now I'm excited to see he and Val paired up) from anyone. He plays like a vet almost. Defensively, I think he'll be more valuable to us. I think that's why I'm excited to see him paired with Val. Under the right coaching (why Casey is a good choice), we could have shut down pair of low post defenders.

Now, Ed is still very raw offensively (gotta work on a short jumper, his FT's) but I call that 'easy' stuff to learn. You gotta put the hours in the gym in, but work hard enough, and it will come. He's got a lot of the intangibles so I'd place him second.

DeRozan for me, is a clear third (and I know someone will read this and say, what a hater, he's hating on DeRozan blah, blah, blah and that's not it at all). I've been a big DeRozan supporter for awhile now. But, out of the three, he's got the lowest IQ and he plays with too much tunnel vision. Now, apart of that could be due to who he plays with, but he plays too selfishly and forces too often (again, there could be legit reasons for that) that I'm having a hard time telling if it's just a part of his game OR if it's part of his mental makeup. And defensively, I think he has the least amount of potential, because of his size. That's not to say he'll always be a poor defender, but he's got to make adjustments his next season, otherwise, we'll have to make some tougher decisions....


Yeah i agree Derozan is probably third, but i went overall with Davis b/c he held his own already in the NBA as an undersized PF. And like i said earlier and you pointed out Davis has the intelligence that Demar doesn't have. His positioning and overall instincts at both ends is very impressive for a player his age with less than a season under his belt. As for Val, imo he's probably second just based on the little i've seen of him and what i've read, but putting him at the top for me anyway is a little premature just because he has yet to step foot on an NBA floor. But it's propbably a toss up between the two bigs.

Dark Knight 08-28-2011 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fk24 (Post 568022)
Val hasn't played against NBA calibre talent yet so I'll rate him 3rd.

I guess that means Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, and Serge Ibaka aren't "NBA calibre" talent...

carp 08-28-2011 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight (Post 568041)
I guess that means Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, and Serge Ibaka aren't "NBA calibre" talent...

only when they're playing in the NBA

LX 08-28-2011 08:18 PM

I agree with a logic what Claudius said, but I just can't pick. All three are going to need each other to come along together. If that happens they all have the chance to have big impact on games in different ways. I really see the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. But if they don't all ome together, I guess it would be V that excited me the most.


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