The Best Player On The Toronto Raptors This Year Will Be..... - Page 5
Old 11-29-2011, 03:42 PM   #81 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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@WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
If AB is just a piece and not a star he's valuable, but if he's a key guy you're in trouble since he doesn't make up for his deficiencies
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:47 PM   #82 (permalink)
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meh, thats his opinion
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:48 PM   #83 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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meh, thats his opinion
That he has too many deficiencies? Yeah, never heard that before. lol
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:48 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Well fuck me sideways with a orange pencil crayon...

Ryan Wolstat has spoken.

Forget everything else.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:50 PM   #85 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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Well fuck me sideways with a orange pencil crayon...

Ryan Wolstat has spoken.

Forget everything else.
Not like he's saying anything many haven't said before.

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Old 11-29-2011, 03:51 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Well fuck me sideways with a orange pencil crayon...
I rather not :P

but I really feel we should get a C this year, someone that will help jonas during the transition. but more importantly, someone who is capableof hadling the C while Bargs plays PF, last thing i would want is some team grabbing him for dirt cheap and him killing it at PF
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:52 PM   #87 (permalink)
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if Colangelo can land Dwight Howard and Chris Paul alongside AB, geoffb will be all over il mago.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:52 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Not like he's saying anything many haven't said before.

Then why post it.

Clearly he is no on "Team Bargnani" and he will be found wanting when the Bargocalypse is upon him.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:54 PM   #89 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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Then why post it.

Clearly he is no on "Team Bargnani" and he will be found wanting when the Bargocalypse is upon him.

It just seemed apropos
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:51 PM   #90 (permalink)
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I thought before the draft that if Jonas is selected, then that's the sign that Bargs' days with the Raptors are numbered.

Ed Davis will be peaking around the same time that DD will be, and with a smaller contract than Bargs. Ed is the PF of the future in Toronto. Jonas is the center of the future. That leaves Bargs to come off the bench (unless those spots are still filled by Amir and Alabi).

It seemed to me that Bargs let the team down last year. Whether or not he was capable of leading the team to the playoffs is beside the point.

Bargs was, and is, capable of turning up to training camp focused, in shape, and with a more refined repertoire. He's capable of being a leader on the floor, and in practice, with his intensity and effort. He's capable of those things because every basketball player is.

Most NBA players don't have the opportunity to be the team leader and face of the franchise. He did, but he didn't prepare himself for that role, and didn't execute that role.

Maybe being traded (or amnestied) will put a chip on his shoulder, and he'll come back from that a much improved player. I think it's entirely possible - he has the talent. But if that's what it takes to wake him up, then that's what needs to happen.

I think that whatever success Bargs has will only increase his trade value. Right now I don't think that he is tradeable - at least not for anything other than another bad contract.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:00 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Bargninny plays with as much passion as a doorknob.

Hurry Jonas, hurry.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:32 AM   #92 (permalink)
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I'm gonna say its the Deero, Bargnani's gonna fill in nicely with casey's coaching though, I'm not sure it sa tough call, but I'm going with DeRozan!
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:57 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:12 AM   #94 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

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I'd like to think Demar. But I feel like next season will be his big year. He and Ed will have a learning season, hopefully upping on their numbers from last year, and blow up last year with JV and top 5 pick.

So probably Bargs.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:09 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Barganani! he's going to get Noweetzkee sets!
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:44 AM   #96 (permalink)
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My vote is for Davis.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:47 AM   #97 (permalink)
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I don't think that is necessary. It just can't be dramatically worse. There has to be a weakest player defensively at a position - and it is usually the strongest offensive player at that position. The goal is to limit the difference (offensively and defensively) between on court and off court performance.

Lots of strong players have negative impacts defensively, since their backups are often defensive specialists, or play against the opposition's bench.

The Celtics' defense gets 2 points per 100 possessions worse when Ray Allen plays. The Bulls' defense gets 8 points worse with Rose on the court. Heck, it gets 4 points worse when Noah plays. The Lakers' defense gets worse by 4 points when Kobe steps on the floor. The Heat's defense gets a point worse with Wade on the floor. The Thunder's defense gets 4 points worse when Durant plays. The Raptors' defense gets 5.5 point worse when Bargnani plays.

It's not really an outlier. The key is for him to improve his offensive impact on the team, which I certainly believe he could, if utilized properly, and for the team as a whole to improve defensively.
This is one of those times where looking stats doesn't tell the whole story.

Noah, Kobe, Rose and Wade can all be relied upon to play some tough, hard-nosed D for significant stretches of any game.... particularly when the game is on the line.

I challenge anyone to say the same about Bargs with a straight face.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:53 AM   #98 (permalink)
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This is one of those times where looking stats doesn't tell the whole story.

Noah, Kobe, Rose and Wade can all be relied upon to play some tough, hard-nosed D for significant stretches of any game.... particularly when the game is on the line.

I challenge anyone to say the same about Bargs with a straight face.
Whoa - I'm not challenging that. I was arguing against a specific criterion for evaluating Bargnani's usefulness to the team. And as you so eloquently point out, it is not that important a criterion.

You can use "relied upon to play some tough, hard-nosed D" as your criterion and I won't argue with you.

I don't know why everyone keeps saying "you can't just look at the stats" when I was discussing the stat, and not the actual impact. I'm in favour of using the actual impact as the criterion, rather than the suggested statistic.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:58 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Whoa - I'm not challenging that. I was arguing against a specific criterion for evaluating Bargnani's usefulness to the team. And as you so eloquently point out, it is not that important a criterion.

You can use "relied upon to play some tough, hard-nosed D" as your criterion and I won't argue with you.

I don't know why everyone keeps saying "you can't just look at the stats" when I was discussing the stat, and not the actual impact. I'm in favour of using the actual impact as the criterion, rather than the suggested statistic.
And I'm certainly not coming at you personally.... I just wanted to weigh in on the idea since I know that some of the Bargs supporters have had their heads buried in the sand for along time when it's come to how mind-bogglingly bad his D really is.

Yes, the team has sucked defensively as a whole for a long time.... but he's certainly been worst of the bunch IMO (outside of a gimpy Jose).
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:08 AM   #100 (permalink)
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And I'm certainly not coming at you personally.... I just wanted to weigh in on the idea since I know that some of the Bargs supporters have had their heads buried in the sand for along time when it's come to how mind-bogglingly bad his D really is.

Yes, the team has sucked defensively as a whole for a long time.... but he's certainly been worst of the bunch IMO (outside of a gimpy Jose).
I agree and say the same about Bosh supporters! Get your head out of the sand dude.

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