Bench is our problem
Old 04-08-2009, 03:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
what he is.

Senior Member
 
henrymakepeace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,175
Representing:
Default Bench is our problem

We have a shitty bench.

No real scorers
No tough defenders
No energy blasters
No consistent guys

Our starters are not bad and when they play one bad game or when they are injured there is noone to back them up. We desperately need a bench guy who can score and also a decent backup PG.
henrymakepeace is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
adoring his baby girl.

Senior Member
 
Sick, Wicked and Nasty!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada eh?
Posts: 3,288
Representing:
Default

I partially agree with your assessment. Our bench is a weakness, but it's more the depth of the bench than the complete lack of quality you suggest.

Pops has shown to be a consistant energy 'blaster'.
Joey has shown to be a pretty tough defender(i.e. on Howard) and a decent scoring option at times. He's earned a contract in my books anyways.

When we get a better 2 guard, Parker will make a nice piece off the bench.

I agree about the scoring option as well. We need an offensive spark that comes in every game.
Sick, Wicked and Nasty! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 10:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
in dire need of a drink ...hic

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 695
Representing:
Default

Definately. I'm ok with PG though. Roko's improved a lot and if they get a new SG then Parker can share backup PG duties.

It's going to be tough to get both a starting SG and a decent bench though.

Draft pick might add some depth, but if BC can't get a starting SG then it's possible the draft pick might start. SG is a bit easier then other positions for rookies to jump into.

Was hoping Pops would be an energizer. Not sure about that anymore. First few games he was good. Since then not so much.

Jakkal
Jakkal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 04:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Superjudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,592
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post

When we get a better 2 guard, Parker will make a nice piece off the bench.

I agree about the scoring option as well. We need an offensive spark that comes in every game.


it's amazing what the effect of that move would be.

it's making it thats the hard part.
Superjudge is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 04:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
in dire need of a drink ...hic

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 695
Representing:
Default

Is there any way to calculate how effective the bench players are, individually or as a whole? It'd be complicated since they don't play as a unit.

Not sure if their's a site that tracks points for and against and minutes played for each 5 man unit that plays during the season.

I'd also like to see how Raptors bench ranks compared to other teams.

It always seemed that the starters would tire out in the 4th quarter. Especially if they had to make up points from getting behind when the subs were on.
Jakkal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 04:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,268
Representing:
Default

I'd like to see Pops become more of a defensive specialist if he stays.

And you're right about the starters tiring Jak - particularly AP showing his age (it'd be great if he could take on a bench role), Jose who just hasn't played these minutes before, and Bargnani a little mentally now and then in second halves.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 01:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
what he is.

Senior Member
 
henrymakepeace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,175
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! View Post
Joey has shown to be a pretty tough defender
Thanks for your reply but isn't that the same guy Kobe Bryant scored 81 points on? lol


Last edited by henrymakepeace; 04-09-2009 at 02:11 AM.
henrymakepeace is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 02:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
what he is.

Senior Member
 
henrymakepeace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,175
Representing:
Default

Ukic will still not be a decent backup next year. We may have to wait forever for him, it is uncertain. I personally find him not mature enough to manage his team on the floor, hope I am wrong. We cannot rely on Banks either as his history doesn't make it very promising. I'm not sure how this will be solved but we should get a scorer combo guard with the draft pick that can play both positions or else we have to find a consistent veteran PG.
henrymakepeace is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 09:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
adoring his baby girl.

Senior Member
 
Sick, Wicked and Nasty!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada eh?
Posts: 3,288
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymakepeace View Post
Thanks for your reply but isn't that the same guy Kobe Bryant scored 81 points on? lol

Uh..no. He was guarded more by Rose and Peterson that night...but it doesn't matter, Kobe was scoring on everyone and would have on anyone that night.... plus that was how many years ago? Joey's rookie year? He's shown marked improvement this year. Check out the Orlando games when he's been on Howard for proof he's tough.
Sick, Wicked and Nasty! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 09:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,710
Representing:
Our starting SG needs to be addressed and then our bench. BC does that and we are a playoff team next season. Unless Triano is still here, b/c if he stays it will probably be tight.

I still think Bosh will be signed-traded for a SG/Big.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 12:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
pensive

feat. Otto Neurath
 
Ligeia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,098
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakkal View Post
Is there any way to calculate how effective the bench players are, individually or as a whole? It'd be complicated since they don't play as a unit.

Not sure if their's a site that tracks points for and against and minutes played for each 5 man unit that plays during the season.

I'd also like to see how Raptors bench ranks compared to other teams.

It always seemed that the starters would tire out in the 4th quarter. Especially if they had to make up points from getting behind when the subs were on.
You can look at 5-man +/-; find the 5 man group that matches what we bring off the bench, and compare it against other teams. It's not exactly what you're looking for, but a decent approximation.
Ligeia is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 12:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,960
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymakepeace View Post
Thanks for your reply but isn't that the same guy Kobe Bryant scored 81 points on? lol

joey's a lot better at guarding big men than 2's and 3's, imo.
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 12:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 22,046
Representing:
Default


Check out how many times Joey is guarding him.
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 12:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
I believe in Masai!

giant steps

 
'trane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,960
Representing:
Default

i'd forgotten that he scored 20 in the last 6 mins of the 4th. :shakes head:
'trane is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 12:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 22,046
Representing:
Default

In rewatching that, Mo was draped all over him on a lot of those shots.

The man was simply on fire.
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 01:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
a paranoid android

My name is Iņigo Montoya

 
Belsius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 10,546
Representing:
Default

That video is just fucking ridiculous
Belsius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 02:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 80,710
Representing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acie View Post
In rewatching that, Mo was draped all over him on a lot of those shots.

The man was simply on fire.
That's putting it mildly. The basket looked like an ocean to him that night. Amazing to watch a player hit shots all night with players all in his face.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2009, 10:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
the_mentor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 29
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrymakepeace View Post
We have a shitty bench.

No real scorers
No tough defenders
No energy blasters
No consistent guys

Our starters are not bad and when they play one bad game or when they are injured there is noone to back them up. We desperately need a bench guy who can score and also a decent backup PG.
Right analysis.The Raptors have the worst bench of the Nba.And the worst defense on the opponent guard.
the_mentor is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 01:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 54
Representing:
Default

When analyzing the bench you need to notice that they're all rather young. Just let the team meld a bit before you begin to scold. I don't think anyone would disagree with adding some depth to the bench again but with Marcus banks injured http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/newrep...2024you're either going with the d-league guard in Douby (has a nice touch), or the Euro rookie Ukic.

Our roster has one player who's given consistent court-time that has been in the league longer than 5 years and that's Marion.

For a more talented bench - well the one you're talking about - we're going to need to move one of our assets (Bargs, Calderon, Bosh) which isn't that realistic. However, I really don't think it's that bad, we just need a better shooting guard. Parker is ok, I'd prefer him off the bench, but Kapono.. my lord.

I saw a marked improvement when Bosh was playing more aggressive on defense and offense. He was also looking for the pass more often than simply jacking the ball up, and he was taking smarter shots from his deadly 12-15ft range. That's coming from someone that isn't a fan of the guy..

One needs to remember this year's been a clusterf**k for the team. They fired a coach who had a completely different system than what was enforced by a guy who's a rookie head coach in the NBA. We suffered multiple injuries to our starters and that's where we saw the effectiveness of a more mature bench. Last year when Ford was injured, Calderon shone in his place. We also had another effective big man in Rasho that we don't have anymore. What I'm trying to say is that despite these players being as talented as they are, they're playing an equally talented opposition. If these guys have to take even the smallest step backward it's going to be exposed, which occurred a lot this year.

On paper we had a really great roster, but we all know that means nothing. I'd suggest letting this season ride out and hopefully only a few small trades are made during the offseason. I really think we'll see a better team next year.
thisorthat is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 07:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
what he is.

Senior Member
 
henrymakepeace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,175
Representing:
Default

Right, Graham had seen only 14 minutes of play in that game. They all look miserable defending Bryant, especially Jalen Rose. I think no European team would allow something like this to happen. Most teams don't know zone and mixed defense in the NBA.

I like Graham although he is not consistent and his defence is over-rated. He is good for the bench and he is still young and has some potential.
henrymakepeace is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Houston, we have a problem Ugo Ferst NBA Talk 23 06-29-2009 11:54 PM
Jose is NOT the problem moremilk Toronto Raptors 47 12-08-2008 03:34 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24