BC Talks about his 2012 Draft Screwup - Page 4
Old 11-15-2012, 09:47 PM   #61 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 235
Representing:
Default

BC's going to regret his pick.

You always, always take the player with the greatest upside/highest ceiling. I think we can all agree that Drummond has a higher ceiling than Ross.

Reminds me of how the Raptors selected Araujo out of need for a big when they could have picked Iguodala instead.

Who says you can't play two bigs together? David Robinson/Tim Duncan was successful. Marc Gasol/Zach Randolph plays well. So far, it looks like Monroe and Drummond can play well off each other.
jaRydIeeP is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 09:59 PM   #62 (permalink)
...

Resident Mavs Fan
 
10gizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,209
Representing:
Default

Aren't most kids coming out of high school or freshman year mental midgets?

They are still kids after all, not all of them come into the league mature and ready to handle the pressure of the NBA.

Drummond could be shit, could be great. I woulda taken the risk but still...definitely dig Tross
10gizzle is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 10:07 PM   #63 (permalink)
is full of beans

Senior Member
 
Beans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 3,862
Representing:
Default

We’re looking at 800,000 points of data per game baby.
Beans is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 10:14 PM   #64 (permalink)
raptor jesus

Senior Member
 
Don Vito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,917
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaRydIeeP View Post
BC's going to regret his pick.

You always, always take the player with the greatest upside/highest ceiling. I think we can all agree that Drummond has a higher ceiling than Ross.

Reminds me of how the Raptors selected Araujo out of need for a big when they could have picked Iguodala instead.

Who says you can't play two bigs together? David Robinson/Tim Duncan was successful. Marc Gasol/Zach Randolph plays well. So far, it looks like Monroe and Drummond can play well off each other.
Duncan's a PF, so is Randolph. I've never seen two legit centers start together successfully... it is really unneeded as well since the league plays smaller now. If this was during the Wilt Chamberlain era or something it might work... but its not.
Don Vito is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 10:35 PM   #65 (permalink)
stank

member
 
Someguy again's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,385
Representing:
Default

he could've been talking about perry jones too
Someguy again is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 03:18 AM   #66 (permalink)
Likes raw prospects with a great work ethic...

Senior Member
 
LKeet6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Liverpool (UK)
Posts: 1,881
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaRydIeeP View Post
BC's going to regret his pick.

You always, always take the player with the greatest upside/highest ceiling. I think we can all agree that Drummond has a higher ceiling than Ross.

Reminds me of how the Raptors selected Araujo out of need for a big when they could have picked Iguodala instead.

Who says you can't play two bigs together? David Robinson/Tim Duncan was successful. Marc Gasol/Zach Randolph plays well. So far, it looks like Monroe and Drummond can play well off each other.
jonas and drummond are both Cs. Yes, the COULD play together now and it would work ok. But in 2 years? both playing 30-35mins? in a league where small-ball is played for fairly big chunks of games?

i think it's debateable how much higher drummond's celiling is, imo it's only just. Also, his possible limbo (what's the opposite of celiling!?) is definitely lower than ross.
LKeet6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:56 AM   #67 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,428
Representing:
Default

i like ross, i know he isn't drummond, everyone wants bigs over smalls if the had the choice but ross doesn't play much he really has had a fair opportunity yet to play

i think in the long run this will help him
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:12 AM   #68 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 235
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
Duncan's a PF, so is Randolph. I've never seen two legit centers start together successfully... it is really unneeded as well since the league plays smaller now. If this was during the Wilt Chamberlain era or something it might work... but its not.
What is the definition of a "legit center"?

I would agree with you if we're talking about two 7 footers with no mobility, no passing skills, and limited shooting range playing together in the front court.

I wouldn't categorize Valanciunas and Drummond as this type of player.
jaRydIeeP is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:19 AM   #69 (permalink)
Likes raw prospects with a great work ethic...

Senior Member
 
LKeet6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Liverpool (UK)
Posts: 1,881
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaRydIeeP View Post
What is the definition of a "legit center"?

I would agree with you if we're talking about two 7 footers with no mobility, no passing skills, and limited shooting range playing together in the front court.

I wouldn't categorize Valanciunas and Drummond as this type of player.
neither of them could be described as solid shooters at this point, so you're immediately hurt right there. Neither of them is a great passer either.

jonas could probably do a job at PF, but it wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I could see him feeling/looking uncomfortable out towards the perimeter with good shooting PFs.
LKeet6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:19 AM   #70 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,619
Representing:
Default

We just have to face it...cleveland ruined our draft by taking waiters @ 4 and BC panicked because none of his 3 guys were on the board anymore (Barnes,Waiters and Lillard). Those saying how BC is an idiot and stuff just remember hindsight is 20/20 and Drummond was being looked at as the biggest bust of the draft. And this is coming from a #FireBC supporter.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 11:00 AM   #71 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,784
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
We just have to face it...cleveland ruined our draft by taking waiters @ 4 and BC panicked because none of his 3 guys were on the board anymore (Barnes,Waiters and Lillard). Those saying how BC is an idiot and stuff just remember hindsight is 20/20 and Drummond was being looked at as the biggest bust of the draft. And this is coming from a #FireBC supporter.
You're right, his guys were all picked when the No.8 selection came up. Watching the inside story of the 2011 and 2012 NBA draft for the Raptors, BC was elated when Jonas was available with the No.5 pick in the 2011 draft. Also, Stefanski admitted that some of the guys they had targetted in the 2012Draft where no longer available. Watching the 2012 draft, its seemed like a consesus pick which fit the environment (Defense, Hustle) Casey was trying to instill and meet the needs of the team (defense, outside shooting). However, you choose the best player available. How many GMs have made the mistake by choosing a player based on team needs rather then best player available? You don't pass a legimate 7 footers, with speed, good hands and touch, and who can jump out of the gym:

"Mark (Columbus)
If you had to redraft the top 5 at this point in the season. What would your top 5 be?

Chad Ford (ESPN)
Don't think I'd change it much at all. Davis is the clear No. 1. MKG has absolutely ridiculous +/- stats right now. I still believe he's the second best player in the draft. Probably would have Andre Drummond and Damian Lillard next. Either Brad Beal or Dion Waiters fills out the Top 5."
RAPMAN is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 11:00 AM   #72 (permalink)
is full of beans

Senior Member
 
Beans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 3,862
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by finstock View Post
I think he's talking about Drummond and Lamb. I agree with BC to an extent in that drafting talent over maturity annually can net you a core that shows flashes but never puts it together (early 2000s Clippers, present Kings). Drummond seems like a good kid, though. And the potential of him and Val wreaking havoc in the paint would have been too enticing for me to pass up.

That said, I'm digging Ross. Anybody else notice how quick he is running shooters off the line and reacting to their first step? Quick feet, quick hands. He has tools be an elite defender, with a jumper. That's good value at 8, even if he doesn't develop much of a slashing game.
This.

I thought JV's work ethic and enthusiasm would rub off on Drummond, but I Ross is one of my favorite players to watch now. I think the Shane Battier comparison will be more apt for Ross than for Fields in the next year or two.

I don't know anything about the other GMs in the article. Is one a good GM that I should believe or they all just average GMs?
Beans is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 12:58 PM   #73 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 235
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LKeet6 View Post
neither of them could be described as solid shooters at this point, so you're immediately hurt right there. Neither of them is a great passer either.

jonas could probably do a job at PF, but it wouldn't be playing to his strengths. I could see him feeling/looking uncomfortable out towards the perimeter with good shooting PFs.
I see decent passing ability given their roles and playing time (check the stats so far). What do you see?

Given BC's position at the time, making the playoffs in the '12-'13 season is not priority. You shouldn't care that your draft pick isn't a solid shooter at the moment. You should be focused on what the player can be in the near future.

Drummond is being blocked by Jason Maxiell, who I believe is a free agent at the end of the season. I'm anticipating Maxiell being moved some time in the season, which would allow Drummond more PT. If that happens then we'll all get a chance to see what kind of player Drummond can be.

I don't doubt that there's risk that Drummond will be one of those players with all the talent but no drive. If I was an owner, I'd want my GM to have balls and not be scared to take that risk.
jaRydIeeP is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 08:01 PM   #74 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,334
Representing:
Default

I agree about taking risks, but with JV here, we didn't have a pressing need to take that risk. The fact that 7 other GMs didn't want to take that risk is pretty telling that few GMs had faith in Drummond. I wanted us to take him, but if my ass was on the line, not sure if would have felt the same way.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:47 PM   #75 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,334
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
If you're talking about a guard or a SF or even a PF then yes.....

When you start talking about a 7ft, 280lbs athletic C that changes the game.

THAT's worth the risk.


As for your worries about not finding a SF.... Matt Barnes was kicking around doing nothing until the Clips picked him up. Weems has also been over in Europe working on his game. There are 2 right off the bat that we could have had with very little effort (and for a cheap cost).

In contrast, look back in Raps history and see how many TRUE C's we've had.

Barnes and weems are not even starting caliber players ... we already have kleiza who's more or less the same type of guy, the 7th or 8th best player on a good team. I'm talking about a guy for the future, somebody who one day can become a talent in the gay/batum/galinari role or better. I don't know if ross is that, but what's certain is that quality wings are VERY hard to find.

As far big, tall athletic centers, pretty much every draft has one of those who end up becoming swift, darko, tyrus thomas or thabeet ...

Like I said in my previous post, if Drummond is who you think he is, he's hands down the 2nd best talent in the draft, and yet 7 GMs passed him, despite a lack of supertalents beyond davis. It's one thing to question a GM's decision, but to question the collective wisdom of 7 front offices - it's pretty bold. It's far more likely that there are some serious warning signs that may or may not happen - but were good enough to make a lot of people turn their backs on him.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #76 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,360
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
Barnes and weems are not even starting caliber players ... we already have kleiza who's more or less the same type of guy, the 7th or 8th best player on a good team. I'm talking about a guy for the future, somebody who one day can become a talent in the gay/batum/galinari role or better. I don't know if ross is that, but what's certain is that quality wings are VERY hard to find.

As far big, tall athletic centers, pretty much every draft has one of those who end up becoming swift, darko, tyrus thomas or thabeet ...

Like I said in my previous post, if Drummond is who you think he is, he's hands down the 2nd best talent in the draft, and yet 7 GMs passed him, despite a lack of supertalents beyond davis. It's one thing to question a GM's decision, but to question the collective wisdom of 7 front offices - it's pretty bold. It's far more likely that there are some serious warning signs that may or may not happen - but were good enough to make a lot of people turn their backs on him.
And you're not going to find a guy like that unless you get lucky and draft one.

Barnes would have been solid enough and would have also helped to change the culture here.... very similar to what guys like Oak and Childs did back in the day.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:01 PM   #77 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,377
Representing:
Default

Top 5 talent he was talking about is Austin Rivers
Top 3 Physical specimen talent he was talking about is Andre Drummond

Sounds like he wasn't confident in drafting Ross,if so,he should've traded the pick or selected a player that you could trade to a team which may have an assest you're interested in. I just hate that they sold all summer that they were high on TR but now he's barely getting to play,even with other players out due to injury.
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:03 PM   #78 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,499
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
Top 5 talent he was talking about is Austin Rivers
Top 3 Physical specimen talent he was talking about is Andre Drummond

Sounds like he wasn't confident in drafting Ross,if so,he should've traded the pick or selected a player that you could trade to a team which may have an assest you're interested in. I just hate that they sold all summer that they were high on TR but now he's barely getting to play,even with other players out due to injury.
No way is Austin Rivers a top 5 talent.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:06 PM   #79 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
No way is Austin Rivers a top 5 talent.
Maybe not overall from that draft,but based on what was left on the board at the Raptors selection..I would say he was and guessing Colangelo thought the same. The Raps liked what they saw from him at the workouts and Rivers had mutual interest.
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 05:21 AM   #80 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,428
Representing:
Default

didn't seen this one coming, i expected Bargnani to be at a allstar level, and colangelo to come through with some roster moves to make this team better

now im wondering if wshre better off trading Bargnani durign the draft, and taken drummond instead, giving a formative big man combo in jonas and drummond

landry fields is the all time worst signing in nba history, his numbers were horrible, guys like mayo, barbosa, peitrus, were all available we sign this douche
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24