Bargs, Dirk and Rebounds
Old 01-06-2011, 09:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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It has been a while since I did a numbers post and this is something I have ben meaning to look up for a while and thought it was kind of interesting so here it is.

*Note: I would love to see Bargs rebounding increased to at least 7 but non the less.

In Year 5 for Bargs compared to Year 5 for Dirk as well as current year for Dirk

Season Age FG FGA FG% 3P% FTA
Bargs 2010-11 25 8.1 17.3 0.467 0.36 4.9
Dirk 2002-03 24 8.6 18.6 0.463 0.379 6.9
Dirk 2010-11 32 9 16.4 0.545 0.403 6

ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK PTS
Bargs 1.2 4.5 5.7 1.7 0.6 0.8 21.4
Dirk 1 8.9 9.9 3 1.4 1 25.1
Dirk 0.7 6.8 7.4 2.4 0.7 0.8 24.1

The glaring differences is points per game and Rebound numbers so lets look into those a little further starting with PPG. yes assists are better for dirk and steals are a little higher but I dont feel that Dirk is a better passer or defender than Bargs, it has to do more with the team and system each plays in. meaning that Dallas plays some defense as a whole and Toronto doesnt, and Dirk has alot better teamates to pass the ball to then Bargs.

Dirk in year 5 averaged more FGA's as well as FTA's, other than that the numbers are very similar percentage wise meaning that is Bargs got a few more touches he would certainly get to the same ppg level as Dirk. Dirk this year is shooting the ball incredibly, that is the difference in regards to points per game.

Now for Rebounds,
Dirk in year 5 averaged 9.9-awesome, his best as a pro. and Bargs is at a pityful 5.7.

However not to make excuses but numbers are numbers so lets compare Dirks 2002-2003 teamates in the frontcourt to Bargs teamates this year.

For Dallas in Dirks 5th year the sf position averaged 9.6 rpgs
The pf spot averaged 10.9
And the center spot averaged 10.2

Average frontcourt rebounds per game for Dallas in Dirks 5th year was 30.7 good for 18th in the NBA.

For Bargs this year:
the sf spot is averaging 6.5
The pf spot is averaging a huge 15.2(3rd in NBA)
and the C spot is averaging 9.6

Average frontcourt rebounds per game for the Raps in Bargs 5th year is 31.3 good for 18th in the nba.


And just for good measure this season Dallas froncourt is averaging 31.9 good for 15th in the nba.

Overall as a team Dallas is 10th in the NBa in rebounds per game this season with the Raps at 15th. (the difference between 10th and 18th is less than 1 rebound per game.)



So I guess the part for discussion is that in year 5 is Bargs really that far off of Dirk?
I mean in regards to points per game the difference comes down to FTAs and FGAs.

And in regards to rebounds, as long as our frontcourt is grabbing the numbers they do, especially out of our PF postion, how many more can realisticly be expected from Bargs without robbing the ones the PF spot is grabbing now?


Anyways discuss.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Bargnani is awesome. I don't see Dirk playing the 5, but Bargnani won't ever be as good as Dirk. I do like his value in relation to salary though.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:53 AM   #3 (permalink)
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This is mostly numbers... one thing Dirk has that Bargnani doesn't is a killer instinct. I don't think that's something that just develops either. Most young players that have it come in to the league with it already having dominated at other levels...Dirk has that...AB does not. He's a talented player but he's not a leader... at least not now.

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Old 01-06-2011, 09:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Here are even more stats. It seems that Dirk is a better shot on the whole.

Hoopdata Player Stats - Andrea Bargnani

Hoopdata Player Stats - Dirk Nowitzki
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The biggest issue I still have with Bargs is consistency, especially at the defensive end. He is such an awesome offensive player when he is on, though, that we should just stop comparing him to others.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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we should be past comparing AB to a max money player. Let's compare him to Mozgov and see who looks better.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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MOZGOV! It's much more fun to say his name.

Bargnani is playing basketball right now, and that's great. He took a charge last night. I think he might have three on the season now, and that would be three more than I expected. He's pretty much on par where I would hope with respect to a Rick Smits type of role. If we can build a team like the Pacers of the 90's then I'm more than happy. That actually seems to be where the Mavs have finally found themselves as well. Holy hell, I hope we don't go through all the misery they've had in D-town before realizing that defense counts for something.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
MOZGOV! It's much more fun to say his name.

Bargnani is playing basketball right now, and that's great. He took a charge last night. I think he might have three on the season now, and that would be three more than I expected. He's pretty much on par where I would hope with respect to a Rick Smits type of role. If we can build a team like the Pacers of the 90's then I'm more than happy. That actually seems to be where the Mavs have finally found themselves as well. Holy hell, I hope we don't go through all the misery they've had in D-town before realizing that defense counts for something.
We'd be lucky to go through that misery!

And I prefer saying, BARBOSA!
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't see Bargs-Smits comparison at all. Bargs is about 10 times more mobile and is infinitely better at putting the ball on the floor.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeToronto View Post
I don't see Bargs-Smits comparison at all. Bargs is about 10 times more mobile and is infinitely better at putting the ball on the floor.
Infinitely better at putting the ball on the floor? So I just dream all those turnovers and traveling calls? That might be overstating things a bit. And I could live with seeing less mobility. I think one of the good things that has happened to his game has come with him staying at home with his man a lot more, and being able to help in the post more as a result. He's actually doing some of the dirty work, which means guys like Amir and Davis are not going to have start from a deep hole to perform within their roles, and that is huge if it continues.

It wasn't meant as a comparison as much as a bar to clear in terms of just playing basketball. You'll note that I referred to Smits' role. He could offer some resistance and have an overall positive impact in the team concept - something which Andrea has failed to do with any kind of consistently up to now.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:07 AM   #11 (permalink)
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OK, yeah, he has to improve his footwork, but he is a much more mobile player than Rick Smits and I actually happen to like his drives very much.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Bargnani is quicker than dirk too.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Go Mago go!!!
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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DIRK>>>>>>Bargnani

He'll never be as good as Nowitzki:

NBA Most Valuable Player (2007)
9 NBA All-Star (2002–2010)
4 All-NBA First Team (2005–2007, 2009)
4 All-NBA Second Team (2002–2003, 2008, 2010)
2 All-NBA Third Team (2001, 2004)
NBA 3-Point Shootout Champion (2006)
2002 FIBA World Championship MVP
NBA Finalist



Future HOFer IMO..











THE END

Last edited by jeffb; 01-06-2011 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
DIRK>>>>>>Bargnani

He'll never be as good as Nowitzki:

NBA Most Valuable Player (2007)
9 NBA All-Star (20022010)
4 All-NBA First Team (20052007, 2009)
4 All-NBA Second Team (20022003, 2008, 2010)
2 All-NBA Third Team (2001, 2004)
NBA 3-Point Shootout Champion (2006)
2002 FIBA World Championship MVP
NBA Finalist



THE END
He'll never be as highly paid as Dirk. End game.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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He does not have Dirk's motor, nor does he put in the kind of work that Dirk does. nor does he take out his frustrations on stationary bikes.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:42 PM   #18 (permalink)
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they have the same number of championship rings.

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Old 01-06-2011, 08:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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While we are talking about numbers if you check Bargs rebounds in december, so with Reggie out, he's at 6.5. Painfully slowly he's gettin better there too.
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