Bargnini Sucks. - Page 2
Old 03-09-2009, 01:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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is this cerial?
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Jealous much?

Trust me I'm old enough to be your father, and if I had an extra $5 on me that day I could be.

I'm also confused did you pass grade 4 spelling? "You're" is short for "you are".

Like This

You're a dummy

that one actually made me spit out my sub.... LOL
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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All of Bosh'sBestFan's posts turn into battle royale's of late. That's entertainment
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:56 PM   #24 (permalink)
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All of Bosh'sBestFan's posts turn into battle royale's of late. That's entertainment
Better than being Chucks best fan....playing "hide the salami and cheese" with bald men from Chicago.

I am the RAPTORSBEST FAN...and Bosh is the best player, is that so hard?
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
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he may not be eloquent but he has something right, Bosh is way better then AB and always will be and those depending on AB to suddenly become "the man" are deluding themselves, he will at best be a great number 3 option.
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:58 PM   #26 (permalink)
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playing "hide the salami and cheese"
Isn't that your favorite game?
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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he may not be eloquent but he has something right, Bosh is way better then AB and always will be and those depending on AB to suddenly become "the man" are deluding themselves, he will at best be a great number 3 option.
Neither should be "the man".
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Isn't that your favorite game?
wow, witty, take a joke I made and say "no you are".

Perhaps you should try to argue with.... unnessasary

Last edited by fancylad; 03-09-2009 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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take it easy now rbf. let's be civil.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:18 PM   #30 (permalink)
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"RAPTORSBESTFAN", I seriously hope that your first post is a mindless rant and not what you honestly believe, because if you believe that the only reason a player gets better stats is because another player "lets him", then you are deranged, and don't understand basketball at all.
-------------

Now, here I will define a cogent argument AGAINST Bargnani's improvement:


ARGUMENT 1:

Here are Andrea Bargnani's per-game stats from the beginning of January, 2009 until today (March 9, 2009). This sample comprises 32 games, exactly half of Andrea Bargnani's season:

(January 1 until March 9) Andrea Bargnani per-game statistics
36.4 minutes, 19.3 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.0 blocks, 46.15% FG, 43.28% 3pt, 82.00% FT.



Here are Andrea Bargnani's stats for October (excluding pre-season), November, and December, also exactly 32 games:

(October until December 31) Andrea Bargnani per-game statistics
23.3 minutes, 10.3 points, 4.3 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 40.62% FG, 36.08% 3pt, 87.14% FT.



----------
Here are Andrea's January 1-March 9 stats, converted to Per-40 minutes to show his effectiveness in equal minutes:

(January 1 until March 9, per-40 minutes game stats)
21.2 points, 7.1 reb, 1.1 blocks, 46.15% FG, 43.28% 3pt, 82.00% FT


Here are Andrea's October - December 31 stats Per-40 minutes:

(October until December 31, per-40 minute game stats)
17.7 points, 7.4 rebs, 2.36 blocks, 40.62% FG, 36.08% 3pt, 87.14% FT



Now, despite a healthy increase in points, rebounds, field goal and 3 point shooting percentages, in my personal opinion, he has not improved much from the first half of the year until the second half of the year, and that the majority of the increase is due to being given about 50% more minutes per game. Comparing the per-40 minute statistics proves this. Furthermore, I believe that the field goal % increases are somewhat negated by the reduction in blocks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARGUMENT 2:

Andrea Bargnani is the WORST raptor by far in total +/- stat. He is a -217 on the season, meaning in all of the floor time he has played combined this year, the Raptors have been outscored by 217 points. This is a significant number.

Source: 82-games.com:

Toronto Raptors NBA stats and data from 82games.com

Last edited by BballWatcher; 03-09-2009 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:21 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Exactly and taking into account that he played SF for some of the time means he should have scored more points, because thats where people get points.

They have let him play 3 positions, and just now he gets it together.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:32 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Exactly and taking into account that he played SF for some of the time means he should have scored more points, because thats where people get points.

They have let him play 3 positions, and just now he gets it together.
Tell that to Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, the Dream, Robinson and other centers that have been scoring leaders how many small forwards outscored them Center is just as effective a position as SF to produce scoring..it comes down to the team and the player.

Moving a young guy around to multiple positions doesn't help him score more, it slows his development by forcing him to learn too many of the games nuances in too short a time, not to mention it negates any advantages he may have matching up against players in his own position and forces him to deal with the advantages other players have against him in their natural positions.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:33 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Now I will make my post, where I refute my previous claims (using the same statistical evidence, not gibberish):

---------

ARGUMENT 1:

I believe that Andrea Bargnani has improved tremendously from the first half of the season. He has found consistency for the first time in his career.

Averaging 19+ points and 6+ rebounds in over 2 months of play puts him on very similar footing to other players from his draft class, notably LaMarcus Aldridge and Rudy Gay. He is still far below the class of Brandon Roy, but can no longer be considered even close to a draft bust.

Again, to emphasize: Andrea has gone from averaging 10.3 points per game (a career worst) in the first 2 months to 19.3 points since January (a career best). By improving his game like this, he is no longer a player on the decline and indeed his ceiling still has yet to be reached.

-------

ARGUMENT 2:

A +/- stat of -217 for Bargnani is indeed dreadful, but is not necessarily reflective on Andrea himself, but more the dreadful state of the team. Chris Bosh's +/- statistic is -85 for this season. Not as bad as Andrea, but still awful, especially for a "franchise" player.

Last year, on a team that went 41-41, Andrea's +/- was +121. The year before that, it was +41. This shows how Andrea is capable of being a contributor on a winning team.

To drive the point home, in 2006-2007, Anthony Parker's +/- was a team leading +308. This season, he is -130 for the season. Parker has declined, but not to the point that his effect has gone from us winning a lot of games because of him, to us losing tons of games and it being largely his fault.

Last edited by BballWatcher; 03-09-2009 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:41 PM   #34 (permalink)
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1st-Bosh
2nd-Jose
3rd-Moon
4th-Parker
5th-Roko (he waved at me)
I won't be surprised if mop girl will show you her tits, you will put her number 1 in your list
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:42 PM   #35 (permalink)
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This thread is just another positive argument for ""Stay in school"
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:08 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Averaging 6 rebounds a game is not going to cut it with a finesse PF like Bosh. Bargs can play the bonner to compliment a guy like duncan who is a back to the basket big.

I think ouy future is better with keeping Bosh around than AB. Hopefully we can trade Bargs for a big rebounder like lopez from NJ.. who knows... maybe we can scoop up Carter from that deal
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I swear all RBF threads bring out the best of people
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:18 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Averaging 6 rebounds a game is not going to cut it with a finesse PF like Bosh. Bargs can play the bonner to compliment a guy like duncan who is a back to the basket big.

I think ouy future is better with keeping Bosh around than AB. Hopefully we can trade Bargs for a big rebounder like lopez from NJ.. who knows... maybe we can scoop up Carter from that deal
I disagree. Rebounding can be made up for in other positions... Marion for example more than makes up for Bargnani(who's defensive rebounding has improved this year). Parker rebounds very well for his position, as does Delfino if he comes back.

Besides, anyone complaining about Bargnani's rebounding doesn't see that for him it's a misleading stat. Bargnani is one of the best on the team at boxing out his man and preventing his man from grabbing the rebound... it doesn't always lead to him getting the board himself, but his man isn't which is just as good from a team rebounding concept perspective. Offsensively it's another story, but again Bosh and Marion can make up for that.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:31 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Barg's boxes out? What happened 3 times at the free throw line when the Jazz got the offensive rebound from Barg's side?

He averages less rebounds per game than lebron james. Bosh is 10th? or 11th in the league btw. and that is why it's such a breathe of fresh air when pops comes in the game. having 2 guys slapping at offensive boards trying to keep it alive is so nice. Bargs camps out on the 3 on offence (he does drive to the basket as well) but when anyone other than him shoots it, he is nowhere on the offensive glasses.

That's why i always proposed the trade Bargs/krapono for Baron Davis/Camby. Camby is 2nd in the league in rebounding and is ALWAYS top 5.. and won defensive player of the year + all defensive first team. That trade would solve alot of our problems @ the 1/2 baron.. cuz he can hit clutch 3's etc. but I think trading Bargs would be pretty good for the right deal.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:35 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Barg's boxes out? What happened 3 times at the free throw line when the Jazz got the offensive rebound from Barg's side?

He averages less rebounds per game than lebron james. Bosh is 10th? or 11th in the league btw. and that is why it's such a breathe of fresh air when pops comes in the game. having 2 guys slapping at offensive boards trying to keep it alive is so nice. Bargs camps out on the 3 on offence (he does drive to the basket as well) but when anyone other than him shoots it, he is nowhere on the offensive glasses.

That's why i always proposed the trade Bargs/krapono for Baron Davis/Camby. Camby is 2nd in the league in rebounding and is ALWAYS top 5.. and won defensive player of the year + all defensive first team. That trade would solve alot of our problems @ the 1/2 baron.. cuz he can hit clutch 3's etc. but I think trading Bargs would be pretty good for the right deal.
Yes he does...and I didn't see the game yesterday so I can't comment on it...other than to say it was only one game.

I admitted he doesn't rebound offensively so that's not worth debating...we have as I mentioned Bosh and Marion that do play around the basket and are both decent rebounders, Marion the best in the league at his position.

Didn't we outrebound the Jazz yesterday? The problems go deeper.
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