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-   -   Bargnani's summer (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/bargnanis-summer-53.html)

alseaf 12-04-2007 11:12 AM

Bargnani's summer
 
Hey all. So i was thinking today for a reason regarding why on earth Bargs hasn't lived up to expectation. Nobody seems to bring up the fact that his summer consisted of playing for a shitty ass Team Italy in the Europe championships. I'm positive that he didn't gain anything valuable in terms of experience over there. Ideally he should have been training all summer and improving his game. I'm curious if anybody knows how much he really did work on his game with professional trainers (NBA ones). I guess the bottom line is, aside from the experience of last year's season and playoffs, don't we have the SAME Bargniani of last year? (i.e. He hasn't made a major leap that we're all expecting, its the same dude).

Cheers.

Claudius 12-04-2007 11:17 AM

Hey alseaf,

Didn't he hurt his back in the summer during the championships? It is possible that his body still isn't back to form. He likely has a nagging injury and it's just not being discussed, but I could also be "reaching" here.

Personally, I think it's been the emphasis placed on defense that has "hurt" Bargnani more than anything. PLaying good defense really drains a person and on offense all you really want to do is rest. Hence, why you take jumpers. It's easier to do that than expound even more energy by taking it hard to the hole. Add in that he's being forced to guard bigger men and do an adequate or better than adequate job then for me it's expected that he performs like a middle of the road player.

I'll be more concerned come February, March if he continues to play this poorly. Then I'll feel that he really hasn't progressed but rather regressed as a sophmore.

Belsius 12-04-2007 11:25 AM

Playing in a major tounament like Eurobasket should give you a lot of experience just check Calderon and Navarro, its different thing if HE didnt gain it. Thats his fault, not playing in the eurobasket. His one on one defense has improved a lot, but he really needs to start posting more and get some esay points, instead of those imposible three pointers that he does. First make the easy things then the difficult ones.

Claudius 12-04-2007 11:28 AM

Another aspect that has hurt his game is he takes alot of poor shots. He takes some fadeways 3's that are just inexcusable!

BballWatcher 12-04-2007 01:14 PM

For whatever reason Bargnani doesn't even look like he did at the end of last season. I'm not about to rule out injuries just because he looks so uncomfortable out there at times.

He has absolutely no swagger, and that's something he started to build last season. Remember when he drained a big 3 and ran back and started shouting - he's not doing any of that.

Acie 12-04-2007 01:20 PM

This all my fault. He's on my fantasy team and it seems as though whomever I have on my team is either destined to suck or get hurt or both.

Sorry guys. :(

Dr. J. Naismith 12-04-2007 01:41 PM

Speaking of Bargnani, any reason why he wasn't on the bench with Bosh and Ford last night? Makes me wonder and kind of nervous if his injury is more serious than we originally thought. :(

Krazy Ivan 12-04-2007 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 435)
Speaking of Bargnani, any reason why he wasn't on the bench with Bosh and Ford last night? Makes me wonder and kind of nervous if his injury is more serious than we originally thought. :(

I wouldn't worry too much... he was probably on the sidelines talking to Mop Girl... all kidding aside I think he is just banged up and needs treatment and rest...

LX 12-04-2007 05:25 PM

I still wonder if there's some lingering effects of the appendicitus, a la Roethlisberger.

He's had some swagger in spots. He's really just up and down right, and when he's down it's just ugly.

At the game against Cleveland the guy beside me sees the ball go out beyond the arc and before the shot is even launched he's on his feet cheering. And then the shot is off target, and he realizes that Moon took the shot and not Bargnani, and he gives Moon hell for taking the shot. There's just too much Bargnani on the brain in this town, and not enough excitement over the strides he is making on defense and rebounding, which have been there on some nights when he has been bad on offense.

Claudius 12-04-2007 05:37 PM

I do think as well that the surgergy probably does have some effect and but I still think he's learning the NBA game. Like you said -LX- there seems to be a correlation between when he plays well on offense his defense usually suffers and when he plays poorly on offense he plays well on defense.

Again, not to bring up comparisons to Dirk, but Dirk almost went through the same thing. I will say though, that I still think we're using Bargs incorrectly at points. I just think he's one of those guys who need a "free reign" to create, almost like a PG and not given a job to do like one has to do in the low post.

rapsfan087 12-04-2007 05:56 PM

IMO you are not looking at this matter in the right direction: in the euroleague Bargs began to play the center spot, with no experience. And right now, he is playing better than in the Euroleague, a lot better, so he is improving, and while he follows improving I think there is not problem.

Claudius 12-04-2007 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapsfan087 (Post 519)
IMO you are not looking at this matter in the right direction: in the euroleague Bargs began to play the center spot, with no experience. And right now, he is playing better than in the Euroleague, a lot better, so he is improving, and while he follows improving I think there is not problem.

I do think he's improving, however I think that his growth is slower than expected. The Euroleague is one thing, the NBA another.

rapsfan087 12-04-2007 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 520)
I do think he's improving, however I think that his growth is slower than expected. The Euroleague is one thing, the NBA another.

True, but my point is that till this summer he didn't play in the center spot, not matter at what competition.

moremilk 12-05-2007 12:18 AM

What exactly is the problem with Bargnani? He's shooting 45% from 3pt - way up from last year. He has more rebounds in the same amount of minutes. His 1 on 1 defense is vastly improved. He still sucks as a help defender, he still makes a ton of mistakes in defense - but really, what did you expect after just one summer? You can judge his improvement at the end of the season, not at the beginning imo. He had 3-4 outstanding games, and 3-4 horrible games, and a bunch of so-sos.

All in all, he's pretty much where he should be - maybe our expectations were too high?

lets go raptors 12-15-2007 05:49 PM

Where's Il Mago?
 
All in all, he's pretty much where he should be - maybe our expectations were too high?[/quote]

I think you hit the nail on the head on this one. Our expectations are a bit too high for bargnani at this point in the season (missing almost a month with the surgery last year). I think right now he feels very uncomfortable because he's being asked to do so many things different from what he is used to. We all know he can shoot.... once he gets more comfortable with his defence and his post up game.... i think he'll be the player we all think he can be:cool:

ClingRap 12-15-2007 05:55 PM

he just looks so robotic out there. his movements look deliberate and his body language is of a guy playing with very little confidence right now. he isn't able to see when its time to take the ball hard to the hoop and when its time to do the one dribble pull-up and when its time to hit the standing jumper. being able to read the defence is something that all players need to work on to some degree.
he needs to relax.
the play of humphries doesn't justify using bargs more than 10 mins a game right now. this obviously isnt going to do anything remarkable for his confidence but i think its hindering his development.
i think what he needs right now to get him off is to come out and hit a couple of shots early. part of it is that his teammates have little confidence in getting him the ball too. they see that he's tentative and that he's giving up shots for more difficult ones.

Dr. J. Naismith 12-16-2007 06:14 PM

Dare I call Bargnani a bust yet? WOW, does he every look horrible now.

JattDogg 12-16-2007 09:56 PM

Fly his momma in for home cooking man...seriously, what the fuck is up with this guy?

If he is injured, then sit the fuck down and rest...you are absolutely useless to us the right now with the way you're playing so we can do without you.

If he is not injured, i guess he needs some play time, but how much? this is the pros and you are a number 1 pick. Pull the shit out of your ass and get to cracking homie.

I hope he can turn it around soon though because this team is a great team....we just need everyone healthy.

Jay 12-16-2007 10:01 PM

He's an absolute mess right now, but I think with him it is all between the ears. He's overthinking the game. I think what he needs is a slump buster. He needs to head out to a club (on the road, of course) with some teammates and they need to do the "dollar a pound" thing. Get his mind off the game, so that the next time he's on the floor, he isn't thinking about making shots or defending guys. He needs some garters a la Nuke Laloosh.

He is making poor decisions, forcing shots, losing track of his man and then reaching in, he's just not into the game. The second year is the toughest, especially when you've had a few injuries. He needs to understand that and let the game come to him. You can't force it.

raptor123 12-16-2007 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 1729)
Dare I call Bargnani a bust yet? WOW, does he every look horrible now.

Well Doc.... Bargs is not a bust :(, coach Mitch has put him in this position and coach mitch will have to get him out of this funk :eek:. We all must remember what type of player we have here a #1 pick :) who could have won the rookie of the year if not for his apendix surgery:( late last year. We all must rememeber that it was the GM of the raptors :) that got coach mitch to start giving Bargs mins last year. We all must remember that coach mitch did not have the patience :mad: to play bargs at the beginning last year. We all must remember last year that the rapts looked better as bargs got more playing time :cool: .The more bargs played the better he got :). Remember last year what bargs said why he was playing better after a slow start to the season...the answer was playing more minutes made him a better player :D. We must remember that bargs was arguebly our best player this year at the start of the year :D. We must remember that coach mitch stated that he was taking bargs out of the starting line up so it could help Rasho :confused:.We must all remember what bargs strengths are and don't make him into something hes not :confused:....We must all remember the comparisons to Dirk we all talked about...what ever happened to that. Oh yeah now I remember :rolleyes: that coach mitch wants to change bargs and make him a player that the player himself can't remember who he is.


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