Bargnani on the trade, his time in Toronto & new team - Page 3
Old 07-11-2013, 07:22 PM   #41 (permalink)
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You wanna tell me he wasn't serviceable? Disappointing as a 1st pick, for sure, but say he was apathetic and not even serviceable? It's not like the whole team was bringing it and he totally sucked. There is no love for Bargs here, me included, but if you look at his stats for the last few seasons, which I am sure you did, you cannot say he was unserviceable.
I certainly can say he wasn't even serviceable over the last couple years. Look, anyone here knows I've been a Bargs supporter from the start - and I've taken on more than my share defending him but no, in the end he wasn't even serviceable. I say that because he let more points in than he scored, he didn't make his team mates better (worse even, especially on defense) and the greatest 'strength' that Bargs is supposed to have is 3 pt shooting and we all know which direction that % has been going the last few years (and personally, if he hit a high % of 3's he would still be here).

If you read my post, you would have read that is me that's becoming apathetic. Bargs is not apathetic and I believe he cares - he's just not empathetic in the slightest. It just doesn't register upstairs that other players and fans are effected by his lack of not caring what others think. Just the way he is - not a choice or anything else. I thought this would have been an advantage for him at the start but as it turns out it had the opposite outcome - it's the reason for me why coaches, team mates, fans and the media had little success in trying to 'get through' to him. It's also why he won't understand that he was the main reason for his failure in the NBA - instead he'll allude to coaches, players, position changes, etc - all the excuses AB fans like myself have used, AB will use. He just had the wrong metal make-up to take his game to the passionate levels that champions do.

So many skills, so much potential....ah well, he's gone and we all can move on.

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Old 07-11-2013, 08:52 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
You wanna tell me he wasn't serviceable? Disappointing as a 1st pick, for sure, but say he was apathetic and not even serviceable? It's not like the whole team was bringing it and he totally sucked. There is no love for Bargs here, me included, but if you look at his stats for the last few seasons, which I am sure you did, you cannot say he was unserviceable.
Depends what game you're talking about. He sucks at reboundball, defenseball and basketball but is great at H.O.R.S.E.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:39 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Are you for real? The fact we booed our own player is embarrassing. What do you want him to say?? I want to thank the fan for the support, while we booed him like fuck?! He will look like a joke if he were to say that.
Well, that's one way to look at it, another might be that saying all the right things when people assumed the worse would simply make him look like....gasp...a professional.

Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:21 AM   #44 (permalink)
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You wanna tell me he wasn't serviceable? Disappointing as a 1st pick, for sure, but say he was apathetic and not even serviceable? It's not like the whole team was bringing it and he totally sucked. There is no love for Bargs here, me included, but if you look at his stats for the last few seasons, which I am sure you did, you cannot say he was unserviceable.
He was apathetic. One of the worst help defenders I've ever witnessed in recent memory. Think of the recent finals matchup that was played. Now picture Bargnani's defense the last 2-4 seasons. Think about how those two things are worlds apart - like AA baseball vs. major leagues.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:31 AM   #45 (permalink)
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effort and Bargnani cant be said in the same sentence
it can if linked together in a negative manner
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:57 AM   #46 (permalink)
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bargnani had more than a week to figure out a number to pick and he picks no 77, what with that

I thought for sure no 11 or 17 would be more logical numbers, nba players don't look good with high numbers

also he was blaming his injuries for his poor play which he doesn't realize that it wasn't the injury it was him, his lack of effort
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:06 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I certainly can say he wasn't even serviceable over the last couple years. Look, anyone here knows I've been a Bargs supporter from the start - and I've taken on more than my share defending him but no, in the end he wasn't even serviceable. I say that because he let more points in than he scored, he didn't make his team mates better (worse even, especially on defense) and the greatest 'strength' that Bargs is supposed to have is 3 pt shooting and we all know which direction that % has been going the last few years (and personally, if he hit a high % of 3's he would still be here).

If you read my post, you would have read that is me that's becoming apathetic. Bargs is not apathetic and I believe he cares - he's just not empathetic in the slightest. It just doesn't register upstairs that other players and fans are effected by his lack of not caring what others think. Just the way he is - not a choice or anything else. I thought this would have been an advantage for him at the start but as it turns out it had the opposite outcome - it's the reason for me why coaches, team mates, fans and the media had little success in trying to 'get through' to him. It's also why he won't understand that he was the main reason for his failure in the NBA - instead he'll allude to coaches, players, position changes, etc - all the excuses AB fans like myself have used, AB will use. He just had the wrong metal make-up to take his game to the passionate levels that champions do.

So many skills, so much potential....ah well, he's gone and we all can move on.
The whole team sucked in the last few years. Bargs included. If this is how you measure them, the majority of our players were not serviceable. Just saying.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:07 AM   #48 (permalink)
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The whole team sucked in the last few years. Bargs included. If this is how you measure them, the majority of our players were not serviceable. Just saying.
Yes. Exactly.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:26 AM   #49 (permalink)
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The whole team sucked in the last few years. Bargs included. If this is how you measure them, the majority of our players were not serviceable. Just saying.
When you are the No. 1 option, and the pressure and expectations are on you, you rise to the occassion. Look what the 2003 draft class (Lebron, Carmelo, Bosh, Wade) did for their franchises. They were the best player on their respective team, and they lead their franchise from a lottery team to the playoffs. Let's face it, when the pressure and spotlight was on Bargnani, he chucked up more shots, shot a lower percentage, and he regressed dramatically on defense and rebounding. When the you're team leader says " I do more complex things than play defense." You have the wrong team leader!
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:52 AM   #50 (permalink)
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When you are the No. 1 option, and the pressure and expectations are on you, you rise to the occassion. Look what the 2003 draft class (Lebron, Carmelo, Bosh, Wade) did for their franchises. They were the best player on their respective team, and they lead their franchise from a lottery team to the playoffs. Let's face it, when the pressure and spotlight was on Bargnani, he chucked up more shots, shot a lower percentage, and he regressed dramatically on defense and rebounding. When the you're team leader says " I do more complex things than play defense." You have the wrong team leader!
I agree, and we can all say that Bargs was disappointing, especially after Bosh left, but I wouldn't say 'he wasn't even serviceable'. BC was the one who drafted him 1st, and this is what led to us to think that he can become a franchise player one day. If he was drafted 6th-10th... well that's a different story all together. If he was really that bad and unserviceable, do you really think the coaches and the training staff are stupid enought to let him be a starter? Like BC said he is an enigma, but I think he might do well in NY.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #51 (permalink)
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The whole team sucked in the last few years. Bargs included. If this is how you measure them, the majority of our players were not serviceable. Just saying.
If you look at our rosters over the last few years, you're 100% right as many players are out of the league or at the end of the bench for their teams.

The difference between them and Bargs is that Bargs has a higher level of talent than they do, but he's such a lazy bum that he chose not to work hard and develop his game to a point where he was a high level player, which I dont think anyone can dispute he was more than capable of becoming. He blames injuries as if it's not a lot of his own doing that he got injured. He was out of shape and playing against players who are some of the greatest athletes in the world. He turned into another player where people will go back and think what could have been.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:33 PM   #52 (permalink)
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If you look at our rosters over the last few years, you're 100% right as many players are out of the league or at the end of the bench for their teams.

The difference between them and Bargs is that Bargs has a higher level of talent than they do, but he's such a lazy bum that he chose not to work hard and develop his game to a point where he was a high level player, which I dont think anyone can dispute he was more than capable of becoming. He blames injuries as if it's not a lot of his own doing that he got injured. He was out of shape and playing against players who are some of the greatest athletes in the world. He turned into another player where people will go back and think what could have been.
There are a lot of reasons for players not to live-up to their potential. We assume he is a lazy bum, but we really don't know what went down and all.
I can think of so many players who were OK for the first few seasons and after that it was all downhill for them. O. J. Mayo is a good example, was drafted 3rd, was a leading candidate with Rose to become a ROTY and look at him now... last year he signed a 1 year deal with the Mavs, had an OK season and now about to sign with the Bucks a 3 year deal for 24M, IMO they overpaid him, and will be surprised if he pans out to be a franchise player. Can we assume he is also a lazy bum? Probably not, but just keep in mind there are a lot of factors to consider.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:32 PM   #53 (permalink)
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There are a lot of reasons for players not to live-up to their potential. We assume he is a lazy bum, but we really don't know what went down and all.
I can think of so many players who were OK for the first few seasons and after that it was all downhill for them. O. J. Mayo is a good example, was drafted 3rd, was a leading candidate with Rose to become a ROTY and look at him now... last year he signed a 1 year deal with the Mavs, had an OK season and now about to sign with the Bucks a 3 year deal for 24M, IMO they overpaid him, and will be surprised if he pans out to be a franchise player. Can we assume he is also a lazy bum? Probably not, but just keep in mind there are a lot of factors to consider.
You're comparing apples and oranges. OJ didn't have the athleticism or quickness to become elite, and people quickly realized this once he got to the NBA level that he wasn't able to get by guys with ease like he did in High School and College.

Bargs on the other hand has shown multiple times that he's capable of being the best player on the court and that he has an edge at his position on any given night due to his skill set and quickness at his size, and instead of working harder to get into better shape and improve the weak points of his game, he mailed it in and was out of shape most of the last few seasons, plus his effort level on the court when he was in shape was abysmal.

OJ is what he is now, he's a good outside shooter who is capable of being a 3rd ball handler for a good team on pick and rolls, but he isn't an elite shooter or scorer, and can't be a high level SG like everyone expected due to his physical limitations. It's not effort with him, like it is Bargs IMO.
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:52 PM   #54 (permalink)
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People always say if he wasn't taken 1st, etc. He was catered to - a lot - by his big supporter in the GM and had 3 different coaches with different approaches to help him out. He's been given a lot of minutes and he never improved his TRB % to a decent level despite him being given 30+mpg to work with since 09. Needs to play with a few players to cover his deficiencies - needs a defensive beast big man to play with (who also excels on the glass) and a solid rebounder at SF. Also showed his limitations physically when DC demanded high minutes from him. Maybe that was DC's fault that he thought Bargs could play really high minutes in 2012. He has also come at the cost of other players more deserving of minutes like ED this past season when he was here.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:52 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I don't think Bargnani is lazy. Nor is he a bum. he just isn't wired to win.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:54 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Notice the "couldn't wait to get out of Canada" comment when Bargnani said no such thing. Gotta love the American media.
but don't forget...we smell funny
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:51 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I don't think Bargnani is lazy. Nor is he a bum. he just isn't wired to win.
Bargs actually kind of reminds me of dwight h. in that sense, he doesn't like to be pressured as a franchise player with all these expectations from the coaches, staff, fans etc.. Even after so much injury and disappointment I don't think he never liked being the main man of the raptors.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:56 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Bargs actually kind of reminds me of dwight h. in that sense, he doesn't like to be pressured as a franchise player with all these expectations from the coaches, staff, fans etc.. Even after so much injury and disappointment I don't think he never liked being the main man of the raptors.
that's why he always talked about winning and the team.... he's unselfish to a fault... so it's okay to criticize his one fault!

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:15 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Nah, I'm just really saying that he lacks the need to win. He really isn't at all competitive. He's in the wrong job.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:30 PM   #60 (permalink)
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IMO Basketball is the quickest sport in the world in terms of the number of decisions and reactions that need to be made over the span of a few seconds.

It's really hard for Bargnani to make those decisions and reactions quickly enough on a consistent basis, and he tries pretty hard imo. I don't believe it is effort.

He was one of the worst first round picks in the history of the NBA. He had the defensive IQ of an infant. Pull the handle and let it go, hoping for triple 7s.
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