The Bargnani hate is excessive and a little embarrassing - Page 2
Old 09-14-2011, 12:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Take skill, talent, scoring, rebounding out of the equation.

Bargs is a loser.

Maybe he can end up finding a role as a pretty 7 foot bench scorer riding the coat tails of a motivated young group of winners.

Derozan, Valanciunas - winners.
DeRozan is a winner? Based on what? His two dunk comps? His college career? You're not even basing your opinion on anything other than hate. At least Bargs has won something before... but no, of course, he's not a winner!

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Old 09-14-2011, 01:05 PM   #22 (permalink)
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My opinion is an observation? No shit!
i think he had a good point in so far as saying he definitely gives too little effort is a bit of a contentious statement. I must admit i also feel that to some extent but his comparison with someone who has a bad jumper was a pretty good one.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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DeRozan is a winner? Based on what? His two dunk comps? His college career? You're not even basing your opinion on anything other than hate. At least Bargs has won something before... but no, of course, he's not a winner!

not saying Bargs is a loser, in fact i disagree with that, but derozan does come across as having a winner's mentality don't you think?
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Google *Bargnani girlfriend* and tell me how he's not a winner.

Now google *DeRozan girlfriend* and there are pictures of Michael Jackson, some animated bear and Bargnani and his girlfriend. What a loser!
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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not saying Bargs is a loser, in fact i disagree with that, but derozan does come across as having a winner's mentality don't you think?
No I don't think... I haven't been convinced of that. What makes you think that? I'm not convinced he's proven that he's a winner, though I can most definitely be wrong. For anyone to look at DD and AB and say one is a winner and one isn't, logic would dictate that the guy who's won something should be the one who's considered the winner.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:42 PM   #26 (permalink)
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No I don't think... I haven't been convinced of that. What makes you think that? I'm not convinced he's proven that he's a winner, though I can most definitely be wrong. For anyone to look at DD and AB and say one is a winner and one isn't, logic would dictate that the guy who's won something should be the one who's considered the winner.
think our definition of "winner" might be slightly different. Could be a cultural thing.

To me you don't have to have won tournaments to be a winner. More like you influence your team in a positive way? that's a bit of a soft statement, like loads of players could say that but i think DD is a worker, a good team-mate, prioritises playing well over looking good (still looks good!) and generally seems to have a good head on his shoulders. That to me describes a winner, weather they're on a good team or a bad team. If you never have the chance to be on a winning team (could be no fault of your own,) you can still be a winner in my eyes. We use that statement in sports quite a lot, more like a personality statement.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:45 PM   #27 (permalink)
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oh and i certainly agree with you that DD hasn't really shown in any way that's he's obviously a winner compared to AB. I've never minded football (soccer) players who aren't ultra competitive and are stronger in other areas.

and i've agreed with most of your comments on Bargs in other threads.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:52 PM   #28 (permalink)
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think our definition of "winner" might be slightly different. Could be a cultural thing.

To me you don't have to have won tournaments to be a winner. More like you influence your team in a positive way? that's a bit of a soft statement, like loads of players could say that but i think DD is a worker, a good team-mate, prioritises playing well over looking good (still looks good!) and generally seems to have a good head on his shoulders. That to me describes a winner, weather they're on a good team or a bad team. If you never have the chance to be on a winning team (could be no fault of your own,) you can still be a winner in my eyes. We use that statement in sports quite a lot, more like a personality statement.
I'll agree with all of that.
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Old 09-14-2011, 02:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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to be a winner playing basketball, in my eyes, you need to find ways to win when shots are not falling
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Old 09-14-2011, 04:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I dunno, lets not confuse 'winner in sports' with 'winner as a nice guy who tries hard'. DD is a nice guy but Kobe is a winner. I guess you can be a 'winner' with a good personality and try and not win. At the end of the day though, as a fan and I'm sure most athletes, I'd rather have a guy like Kobe who can make his team a winner and make himself a winner by finding a way, no matter how off his shot or defense or whatever it is, to fuck you over. Championships and the hall of fame are filled with 'winners' not 'nice guys who tried their best but couldn't get there'. At some level you have to win to get the label of a 'winner'.

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Old 09-14-2011, 04:55 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I dunno, lets not confuse 'winner in sports' with 'winner as a nice guy who tries hard'. DD is a nice guy but Kobe is a winner. I guess you can be a 'winner' with a good personality and try and not win. At the end of the day though, as a fan and I'm sure most athletes, I'd rather have a guy like Kobe who can make his team a winner and make himself a winner by finding a way, no matter how off his shot or defense or whatever it is, to fuck you over. Championships and the hall of fame are filled with 'winners' not 'nice guys who tried their best but couldn't get there'. At some level you have to win to get the label of a 'winner'.
yes, but my point was there are plenty of players every bit as much of a winner as kobe who have 0 rings, or less than 5 rings. You can not judge a guy in a team sport as a winner based purely on how many rings they have.

and my definition of a winner was not someone who is a "nice guy"

someone who springs to mind is isiah thomas, every bit as much of a winner as bryant imo but "only" 2 rings. how do you explain that?
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:20 PM   #32 (permalink)
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DD finds ways to have his bad team compete. He still has a long ways to go, and he will never be Kobe, but he shows some signs of being a winner.
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:35 PM   #33 (permalink)
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DD finds ways to have his bad team compete. He still has a long ways to go, and he will never be Kobe, but he shows some signs of being a winner.
yeah, i believe DD is a winner. Tons of improvement to be made, not prepared to put a ceiling on where he can go. likelihood of him being as good as kobe is low, as it would be for any young player, indeed any player.

another way of looking at this argument would be there are LOADS of players with rings who are NOT winners!? good players, bad players but plenty of guys who don't have that mentality, heart and personality of a winner.

rings do not matter. Imo.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:32 PM   #34 (permalink)
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yes, but my point was there are plenty of players every bit as much of a winner as kobe who have 0 rings, or less than 5 rings. You can not judge a guy in a team sport as a winner based purely on how many rings they have.

and my definition of a winner was not someone who is a "nice guy"

someone who springs to mind is isiah thomas, every bit as much of a winner as bryant imo but "only" 2 rings. how do you explain that?
Well, Kobe is the epitome of a winner, and not meant to be a bench mark for all else. Like I was saying, at some point you have to win to be a winner in sports and isiah has won on multiple levels. Wade has won one and is a winner. Carmelo willed the Orangeman to the NCAA title and won and he's a winner. My point simply is in sports to be a winner you need to win somewhere, sometime. You spoke of being a winner as a personality trait and it is to some degree. DD has shown glimpses but so what? Every Pro player has, that's why they're pros. Doesn't make them a 'winner' till you actually win. these guys want to be rememebered as a winner so they chase the title cause they want to win on the highest level.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:36 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well, Kobe is the epitome of a winner, and not meant to be a bench mark for all else. Like I was saying, at some point you have to win to be a winner in sports and isiah has won on multiple levels. Wade has won one and is a winner. Carmelo willed the Orangeman to the NCAA title and won and he's a winner. My point simply is in sports to be a winner you need to win somewhere, sometime.
So does that mean Adam Morrison is a bigger winner than Wade?
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
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yeah, i believe DD is a winner. Tons of improvement to be made, not prepared to put a ceiling on where he can go. likelihood of him being as good as kobe is low, as it would be for any young player, indeed any player.

another way of looking at this argument would be there are LOADS of players with rings who are NOT winners!? good players, bad players but plenty of guys who don't have that mentality, heart and personality of a winner.

rings do not matter. Imo.
As a fan of the sport I can see you're point - Bargs is a good example of that as he was the beneficiary of being on good teams which doesnt make him a winner - just skilled and good timing of teams. IMO guys want to be remembered as a winner and to have that they need to win. Thats why the miami 3 joined and the Boston 3 joined and why Malone went to the Lakers DD has done nothing but show potential. That doesn't make him a winner but a hard worker.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:40 PM   #37 (permalink)
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So does that mean Adam Morrison is a bigger winner than Wade?
Nope, not at all.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:41 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Nope, not at all.
He has more rings
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I'm not sure of the love fest for DD - he's not a franchise player and never will be. Hes never going to lead the Raps to the promise land. Bargs has the potential but no desire - which is why so many Raps fans hate him - he wasn't the winner we were promised by BC

My hope rests with JV or someone in the 2012 draft

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Old 09-14-2011, 07:44 PM   #40 (permalink)
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He has more rings
So
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