Bargnani/Calderon to LAL? - Page 2
Old 01-05-2012, 01:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
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This would be a terrible deal for us

I'd rather have Jose than Fisher, and Bargnani has outplayed Pau this season as well
I'd rather have Bayless then Fisher, nevermind Jose. lol

As for Bargnani outplaying Gasol ........it's only been 6 games.

And Pau is averaging nearly 9rpg and almost 2blks per game. He's doing fine. Still wouldn't do it though.

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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i'm just trying to get in on the love connection you've made with the softy

THREE WAY!
you're in... we need a trunk for our junk!

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Horrible trade.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GrannyFro View Post
does anyone have stats on Bargnani to start last year? i swear he started the same way, fresh and scoring big. The team may not have started .500 nor did they play cleveland twice or have two 20ppg scorers but i remember a very similar start and reaction from the fans

this said i'm high just about every day, maybe Bargnani started last season averaging 12 and 2
That may be, but this year he's driving to the basket more, not to mention his commitment on defence. That wasn't the case last season.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:57 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Omg NO! DONT HAPPEN.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:01 PM   #26 (permalink)
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THIS WOULD BE HORRIBLE
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Bargnani to start 2010-11: First 6 games.

vs NYK: Lost - 22 points on 21 FGA, 8 FTA, 6 REB, 2 BLK, .381 FG%
vs CLE: Won - 20 points on 13 FGA, 5 FTA, 1 REB, 1 BLK, .538 FG%
@ SAC: Lost - 28 points on 17 FGA, 5 FTA, 2 REB, 2 BLK, .588 FG%
@ UTA: Lost - 26 points on 19 FGA, 9 FTA, 9 REB, 2 BLK, .421 FG%
@ LAL: Lost - 14 points on 13 FGA, 4 FTA, 3 REB, 1 BLK, .385 FG%
@ POR: Lost - 12 points on 17 FGA, 0 FTA, 8 REB, 0 BLK, .353 FG%

Averages through 6 games: Raps 1-5 (0.167 Win%)
20.3 points on 16.7 FGA, 5.2 FTA, 4.8 REB, 1.3 BLK, .439 FG%

Average at end of season: Raps 22-60 (0.268 Win%)
21.4 points on 17.8 FGA, 5.3 FTA, 5.2 REB, 0.7 BLK, .448 FG%

So he actually increased his efficiency, total scoring output, and rebounds from this point in the season onward, although his blocks suffered a great deal throughout the season.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Bargnani to start 2010-11: First 6 games.

vs NYK: Lost - 22 points on 21 FGA, 8 FTA, 6 REB, 2 BLK, .381 FG%
vs CLE: Won - 20 points on 13 FGA, 5 FTA, 1 REB, 1 BLK, .538 FG%
@ SAC: Lost - 28 points on 17 FGA, 5 FTA, 2 REB, 2 BLK, .588 FG%
@ UTA: Lost - 26 points on 19 FGA, 9 FTA, 9 REB, 2 BLK, .421 FG%
@ LAL: Lost - 14 points on 13 FGA, 4 FTA, 3 REB, 1 BLK, .385 FG%
@ POR: Lost - 12 points on 17 FGA, 0 FTA, 8 REB, 0 BLK, .353 FG%

Averages through 6 games: Raps 1-5 (0.167 Win%)
20.3 points on 16.7 FGA, 5.2 FTA, 4.8 REB, 1.3 BLK, .439 FG%

Average at end of season: Raps 22-60 (0.268 Win%)
21.4 points on 17.8 FGA, 5.3 FTA, 5.2 REB, 0.7 BLK, .448 FG%

So he actually increased his efficiency, total scoring output, and rebounds from this point in the season onward, although his blocks suffered a great deal throughout the season.
so his hot start was four games instead of six. Maybe the drugs are getting to me but nothing changes in my opinion , still buy low sell high. Expecting a bed shitting any time now

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Old 01-05-2012, 02:44 PM   #29 (permalink)
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so his hot start was four games instead of six. Maybe the drugs are getting to me but nothing changes in my opinion , still buy low sell high. Expecting a bed shitting any time now
I agree. What happens to Andrea when he shots stops falling? The only difference is Dwayne Casey. If the shot is not falling, I think Andrea will work his tail off on the defensive end. As much as I agree with the buy low, sell high, I don't think it will happen. Casey has been praising Andrea alot in the news conferences.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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so his hot start was four games instead of six. Maybe the drugs are getting to me but nothing changes in my opinion , still buy low sell high. Expecting a bed shitting any time now
So how many games will be required for you to project he might actually be improving? Just curious, because based on that statement, he is now 2 or 3 games overdue for his bed-shitting, as he was awful shooting in that 4th game. He's only gone below (or anywhere near) that .421 he shot in his 4th game last year ONCE this year (.417 in the opener). The next worst game would be in Orlando, where he shot .476.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
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So how many games will be required for you to project he might actually be improving?
you have to admit, 6 games is clearly not a big enough sample size to declare him a changed player. I remember when JO was traded and Bargnani's game took off leading up to the deal and after it for that matter, most were saying then that he had finally gotten it and that was the "real" Bargnani. Then last season he was inconsistent at times, lacked effort and was awful on D. Now he's back to being the real Bargnani.....let's hope this sticks. The thing is, the organization is going to really take a long hard look at Bargnani this season along with Calderon for that matter. Both have been here a while and the they know what they have and how their games can drop. Now they're going to have to either sell high knowing they could easily fall back down to earth for the umpteenth time, or keep one or both thinking they can continue to play at a high level for several years going forward.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
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you have to admit, 6 games is clearly not a big enough sample size to declare him a changed player...
Just asking for a number Jeff. How many games is enough?
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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That may be, but this year he's driving to the basket more, not to mention his commitment on defence. That wasn't the case last season.
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So how many games will be required for you to project he might actually be improving? Just curious, because based on that statement, he is now 2 or 3 games overdue for his bed-shitting, as he was awful shooting in that 4th game. He's only gone below (or anywhere near) that .421 he shot in his 4th game last year ONCE this year (.417 in the opener). The next worst game would be in Orlando, where he shot .476.
good points.

it's the aggression and the efficiency that's been so eye-opening so far. 31 points off 16 shots is awesome (was 31-14 just before the end.) Get to the line and you improve your efficiency so much. Not to mention the psychological affect having a good game like that has. He started having fun and just knocking down shots that weren't even touching the twine.

don't think his much improved aggression on D has been refelcted in his stats yet. he's been bodying up really well but hasn't been getting that many blocks yet and i keep thinking he has more rebs than he does! Must be coz i'm a bargs' sympathiser.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Just asking for a number Jeff. How many games is enough?
Honestly, 66 games. For me, i've been up and down on Bargs (mostly down the last 2 seasons). I want to see a sustained effort at both ends for a whole season. A novel idea i know, but that's what i'm looking for. If we come back from the All-Star break 10 games out of a playoff spot i don't want to see old habits coming back into his game, namely lack of effort. With the ups and downs in his career so far, let's see a full season flike this from him. And when his shot isn't going down, go to the rim more like he has been doing and still continue to give effort on D.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:07 PM   #35 (permalink)
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The trade "rumour" doesn't many any sense for Toronto, at least not right now. Gasol isn't the type of player to build around and Fisher's best days are long over. LA would get the better end of the deal by far. Unless a third or fourth team was involved, then I don't see Toronto and LA being a good match for both Bargnani and Calderon.

Now, I could see something revolving around Calderon that includes the Lakers' first-round pick and some expiring contracts (e.g., Murphy, Kapono, etc.).
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:08 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Yes, please. Let's get rid of our two best players at a time when we actually are happy with 'em.
No offense to your point of view, personally, but I see this all of the time, and this is the difference between a fans' mentality, and a GM's.

Fan bases ALWAYS want to trade a player when they're down, but never when their value is high. This, however, is the complete opposite of what a GM must do. What they must do, is evaluate the long-term fit of a player, and take advantage of trade value while it's high.

The buy low, sell high thing has already been mentioned a few times in this thread, and I agree whole-heartedly.

While I have LOVED the start that Jose and Bargs have had, you have to ask yourself, will they be able to sustain it. Bargnani's offensive numbers have been ridiculous, but if your goal is to build a championship team, can you do that with a PF who is averaging 6 rebounds per game. Jose too, has been playing like a borderline all-star, but this is only 6 games in to the season.

While I'm not saying these two players aren't part of the future, if you're looking to build a championship team (in a few years from now), you have to at least entertain the idea of trading anybody who will help in the long-term growth of this team.

That's why this particular trade is crap, although I'd be open to dealing anybody on our roster.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
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No offense to your point of view, personally, but I see this all of the time, and this is the difference between a fans' mentality, and a GM's.
Agreed. Fans are about the now. A month ago both players were weren't exactly popular. Hell, i remember in pre-season many were saying we need two new PG's. lol


If i'm not mistaken the season we had JO we started the season 3-0 and everyone was giddy. Well, that turned out great, no?

The thing is Colangelo isn't going to look at the last 12 days and change his mind about any of his players. It'll take more than that, as it should. This is going to be a season for him to really see what he has here, with everyone including Bargs/Jose for 66 games.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:18 PM   #38 (permalink)
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So how many games will be required for you to project he might actually be improving? Just curious, because based on that statement, he is now 2 or 3 games overdue for his bed-shitting, as he was awful shooting in that 4th game. He's only gone below (or anywhere near) that .421 he shot in his 4th game last year ONCE this year (.417 in the opener). The next worst game would be in Orlando, where he shot .476.
oh i don't doubt that he probably is slightly improved just as he was last year, that can be just a matter of getting closer to that phyiscal prime as a player where strength meets athleticism to go with smarts. But in terms of him being changed, ready to breaks sweats nightly and constistantly give an effort, show us for at least 20 games. Lets see some intesity when the nba wear and tear has his legs stiff and body not 100% like every player logging big minutes goes through. I have huge doubts contrary to most here, casey can't be this good
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Honestly, 66 games. For me, i've been up and down on Bargs (mostly down the last 2 seasons). I want to see a sustained effort at both ends for a whole season. A novel idea i know, but that's what i'm looking for. If we come back from the All-Star break 10 games out of a playoff spot i don't want to see old habits coming back into his game, namely lack of effort. With the ups and downs in his career so far, let's see a full season flike this from him. And when his shot isn't going down, go to the rim more like he has been doing and still continue to give effort on D.
Fair enough, considering the history.

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oh i don't doubt that he probably is slightly improved just as he was last year, that can be just a matter of getting closer to that phyiscal prime as a player where strength meets athleticism to go with smarts. But in terms of him being changed, ready to breaks sweats nightly and constistantly give an effort, show us for at least 20 games. Lets see some intesity when the nba wear and tear has his legs stiff and body not 100% like every player logging big minutes goes through. I have huge doubts contrary to most here, casey can't be this good
Seems reasonable. The way I see it though, is that most GM's will need that same sustained showing before giving up a lot of assets for him - at which point maybe we want to keep him - it's a bit of a catch-22. So the discussion of selling high seems a bit nebulous to me.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Not sure about Calderon, but seeing as we are looking to upgrade that position, if we can deal him for a better PG then Yes by all means.
Huh?

Who is better than Jose at the point right now? Rondo, Paul, Williams, Wall & possibly Westbrook.

None of those players will ever get traded for Jose.
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