Bargnani: "Bryan is going to move him no doubt" - Page 3
Old 12-18-2012, 04:06 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I don't think the lakers want Bargnani alone, i think they 'accept' il mago if in the trade they get Calderon.
Are Bargnani and Calderon not enough to trade for Gasol? 10M + 10M = 20M
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:55 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I don't think the lakers want Bargnani alone, i think they 'accept' il mago if in the trade they get Calderon.
Are Bargnani and Calderon not enough to trade for Gasol? 10M + 10M = 20M
it is enough, but we're still evaluating
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:15 AM   #43 (permalink)
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lakers = barg, calderon
timberwolf = gasol, +2nd round lakers
toronto = williams, pekovic

still like this...
we need a point guard...bring back uzoh
wheres machado anyway
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:15 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I would be overjoyed if we could land him in a deal.

I'd still happily take Pau though (provided his knees aren't completely shot).
I kind of thought about it last night actually and quickly came up with this deal

Bargnani, Calderon, Kleiza or Gray to Utah for Mo Williams, Millsap and some pieces.

Salaries obviously don't match but you can find pieces.

Utah gets some value back for Millsap and can insert Jose as their PG right now and let him walk (they still retain some cap space). Bargnani can get a fresh start as simply a scorer and three point threat.

Toronto does it because they can let Williams expire at the end of the year and try to resign Millsap or let him walk giving us some cap flexibility at the end of this year. We can always expand the deal and send Millsap to LA for instance.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:28 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I kind of thought about it last night actually and quickly came up with this deal

Bargnani, Calderon, Kleiza or Gray to Utah for Mo Williams, Millsap and some pieces.

Salaries obviously don't match but you can find pieces.

Utah gets some value back for Millsap and can insert Jose as their PG right now and let him walk (they still retain some cap space). Bargnani can get a fresh start as simply a scorer and three point threat.

Toronto does it because they can let Williams expire at the end of the year and try to resign Millsap or let him walk giving us some cap flexibility at the end of this year. We can always expand the deal and send Millsap to LA for instance.
I respectfully disagree.

That makes no sense for Utah, in my opinion. Bargnani makes them worse; it's not value. And Mo Williams is playing well for them this year, so there is no need to mess with chemisty by bringing in a new PG. I don't see why they'd bother.

Most importantly, they can get something better for Millsap.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:32 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I respectfully disagree.

That makes no sense for Utah, in my opinion. Bargnani makes them worse; it's not value. And Mo Williams is playing well for them this year, so there is no need to mess with chemisty by bringing in a new PG. I don't see why they'd bother.

Most importantly, they can get something better for Millsap.
Hence, why it's kind of a framework for a bigger deal. They're likely keeping Jefferson ahead of Millsap (which I don't agree with).

Williams works when they want scoring from their PG, but I actually prefer watching them when Tinsley is on the court.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:32 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Does Colangelo dare to move Calderon now?
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:34 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Does Colangelo dare to move Calderon now?
Yeah, knowing BC that 2 game winning streak will make him keep him. Bargs is the bigger problem anyway though.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:37 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I respectfully disagree.

That makes no sense for Utah, in my opinion. Bargnani makes them worse; it's not value. And Mo Williams is playing well for them this year, so there is no need to mess with chemisty by bringing in a new PG. I don't see why they'd bother.

Most importantly, they can get something better for Millsap.
There is logic in dealing Millsap for them, given that he's an expiring, has turned down an extension offer, and has signed elsewhere before (in Portland, only to be matched as an RFA).... but expirings don't seem to bring as much back as onced thought. A lot of teams paying for rentals now are draft pick poor and asset depleted with all of the big three type team management. As for Bargnani making them worse, I disagree, respectfully of course. They have Favours, Jefferson and Kanter and I think AB might offer a very good contrast to those three. Maybe the deal suggested wasn't right, but I think many on here undervalue what AB can bring to a team that doesn't also have two brutal perimeter defenders beside him.

Just as I believe Jose can be solid here, teams are able to cover for one maybe two weaker defenders. Unfortunately our perspective at RF is skewed because we've been covering for four weaker defenders regularly. Even our defensive players aren't as defensive as some think. We've got a culture of softness and it's permeated. Bargnani would fit in much nicer on a team that has a stronger system and a more demanding culture.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:41 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Hence, why it's kind of a framework for a bigger deal. They're likely keeping Jefferson ahead of Millsap (which I don't agree with).

Williams works when they want scoring from their PG, but I actually prefer watching them when Tinsley is on the court.
I don't see the point in wasting Millsap's value as part of a bigger deal with Toronto. There are a bunch of options to use him as part of a package to make a bigger splash. I mean, it would be great for us, but it does not seem realistic from Utah's perspective.

I agree that Millsap is more desireable than Jefferson, but I think part of the reasoning for keeping Jefferson is that he fits better with Favours than Millsap does. Favours is ready for a much bigger role.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:41 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Yeah, knowing BC that 2 game winning streak will make him keep him. Bargs is the bigger problem anyway though.
It's not the streak, it's the way team is playing with him as the lead guard, even in the loss to Brooklyn. You'd have to admit - they looked very different at both ends of the floor for the past three games.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:46 AM   #52 (permalink)
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There is logic in dealing Millsap for them, given that he's an expiring, has turned down an extension offer, and has signed elsewhere before (in Portland, only to be matched as an RFA).... but expirings don't seem to bring as much back as onced thought. A lot of teams paying for rentals now are draft pick poor and asset depleted with all of the big three type team management. As for Bargnani making them worse, I disagree, respectfully of course. They have Favours, Jefferson and Kanter and I think AB might offer a very good contrast to those three. Maybe the deal suggested wasn't right, but I think many on here undervalue what AB can bring to a team that doesn't also have two brutal perimeter defenders beside him.

.
Yes, there is logic in dealing Millsap. I just think they can get a better package.

As for Utah covering for Bargnani's defensive liabilities, not likely. The Jazz are 23rd in defensive rating. Utah is above .500 because of their offesnse, not defense. Utah is actually a pretty poor defensive team this year, making Claud's suggested trade even more unlikely for them. Adding Calderon and Bargnani to an already poor defense? No.

Utah wins right now because they have a top 10 offense. Why the fuck do they need Bargnani? No. Sorry. It just does not make sense if you have a GM who is paying attention to his roster and what his team needs. I don't think O'connor does that move.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:50 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Last years hit of RF was Batum its seems like this year it will be Millsap
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:51 AM   #54 (permalink)
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It's not the streak, it's the way team is playing with him as the lead guard, even in the loss to Brooklyn. You'd have to admit - they looked very different at both ends of the floor for the past three games.
that last part is rather astounding... his leadership has these guys fighting. It's funny, for years he gets criticized for pounding the ball.... truth is, he's pounding it so others don't. He's being allowed to run his offense and this year he's been allowed to be and has actually been much more aggressive in getting his own scoring going.... which makes him a very dynamic offensive PG. We've lacked a dynamic flow with him before because he was trying too hard to get others going... and they rarely got going. Now that we have some young guys beginning to develop more of their touch and offensive skillsets, he's able to create more havoc for other teams defensively. A scoring Jose is what we've lacked.... the real question Jose doubters should ask is will he keep it up, not can he do it.

IF Lowry is traded, does Jose become complacent? Has he in the past or has it just been such a shitty supporting cast that it's difficult to sustain?
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #55 (permalink)
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It's not the streak, it's the way team is playing with him as the lead guard, even in the loss to Brooklyn. You'd have to admit - they looked very different at both ends of the floor for the past three games.
I agree, but i also think that has to do with a lot more than just Jose. Casey said when they came back home told them that if they don't play defense they don't play. There's just more accountability all around and players see the opportunity to take advantage of the schedule. Jose started for 3 weeks earlier in the season and they weren't playing like this and we weren't winning then. Casey is using a tighter rotation and is holding them more accountable finally. He looks like last seasons coach. Take a look at our bench, it's lighting things up, even Lucas is player smarter ball. The bench scoring is as much to credit for the last two wins.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Last years hit of RF was Batum its seems like this year it will be Millsap
Millsap has been a target for some of us for years.... check the Utah-Raps game threads.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:54 AM   #57 (permalink)
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With the way Eddy's is playing, in case Bargnani is traded I wouldn't want a PF back. I'd look to upgrade SF position and/or get a veteran backup PF or PG.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:55 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I don't see the point in wasting Millsap's value as part of a bigger deal with Toronto. There are a bunch of options to use him as part of a package to make a bigger splash. I mean, it would be great for us, but it does not seem realistic from Utah's perspective.

I agree that Millsap is more desireable than Jefferson, but I think part of the reasoning for keeping Jefferson is that he fits better with Favours than Millsap does. Favours is ready for a much bigger role.
Not so much a bigger deal with Toronto but inserting another team (say Minnesota, LA etc.) I think our role would be more with facilitating a deal.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:59 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Not so much a bigger deal with Toronto but inserting another team (say Minnesota, LA etc.) I think our role would be more with facilitating a deal.
Well, 3rd team could change things. That might be more realistic.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:07 PM   #60 (permalink)
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With the way Eddy's is playing, in case Bargnani is traded I wouldn't want a PF back. I'd look to upgrade SF position and/or get a veteran backup PF or PG.
There may not be a SF available... but PM can and does play a little three at least.
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