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-   -   Bargnani beyond the arc (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/bargnani-beyond-arc-22567.html)

LX 03-25-2012 10:37 AM

Bargnani beyond the arc
 
The guy shot 11 threes in the last two games. 18 over the last four. He's made two of them. When the shot at the end of last night's game didn't go down he muttered "bullshit" while walking back to the bench. I have to wonder if shooting so many threes might be bullshit. He's hitting .278 for the season. He's had two notably good games shooting long distance, in back to back games in January where he hit 7 of 14. Outside of those 2 games he's hitting 23 percent of his threes.

I would really like to see this guy play inside the arc a lot more. He mixes it up really well in the first quarter (that is also when he makes a lot of threes, likely because he's not just settling), and then settles for way too many bad shots the rest of the way. As much as he has seemed to have improved his mindset this season, his old patterns still take hold, and shooting a ton of blanks from outside would be a sure sign of that for me.

jeffb 03-25-2012 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 630126)
The guy shot 11 threes in the last two games. 18 over the last four. He's made two of them. When the shot at the end of last night's game didn't go down he muttered "bullshit" while walking back to the bench. I have to wonder if shooting so many threes might be bullshit. He's hitting .278 for the season. He's had two notably good games shooting long distance, in back to back games in January where he hit 7 of 14. Outside of those 2 games he's hitting 23 percent of his threes.

I would really like to see this guy play inside the arc a lot more. He mixes it up really well in the first quarter (that is also when he makes a lot of threes, likely because he's not just settling), and then settles for way too many bad shots the rest of the way. As much as he has seemed to have improved his mindset this season, his old patterns still take hold, and shooting a ton of blanks from outside would be a sure sign of that for me.

Since coming back he's playing like the same old Bargs, even his defense isn't as good as it was in january. Now obviously he was coming back from injury but it's been two weeks now and he needs to finish the season the way he started it.

moremilk 03-25-2012 11:13 AM

maybe there's a correlation between fatigue and the number of 3s taken
also, somebody has to shoot 3s, this team lacks that skill and even with the bad percentages, I'd rather have andrea and jose shoot them, rather than demar and JJ.

that being said, bargnani shooting 3s is a waste of his talents, he puts no pressure on the defense and even if he would shoot in the high 30s, it would still be better (for the team as a whole) if he went inside more.

LX 03-25-2012 12:21 PM

What I'm seeing is a lot more resistance from opposing defenses than what he saw at the start of the season. Then he had a lot more guys leaving him out there, then running out at him and leaving a path to the paint. Now he still has some success with the pump fake that gets some guys in the air, but he's fumbled the ball on a good number of those plays, as well as being fouled, and his energy level just seems to decline from both results. He gets stronger in games where his pretty shots drop and he finds his rhythm. Which I can handle to some extent. What I don't like is falling back on long range shots. True there is a need for threes on this team, but for so many from a low percentage guy? It's bullshit. I really don't want to see anything like that next season.

halphbreedballer 03-25-2012 12:32 PM

Give him a break he still doesn't have his leg strength back...

AlexRaphael 03-25-2012 12:43 PM

Ya I would say his not using a whole lot of vertical jump on his long jumpshots and 3 pointers, maybe cause it has too do with the leg injury. He is a deadly shooter, but i don't know, lately its not enough jump....even Leo says that many times, just hits the front rim or no arc and pops out ect. You gotta use your legs!

Bargn88 03-25-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 630127)
Since coming back he's playing like the same old Bargs, even his defense isn't as good as it was in january. Now obviously he was coming back from injury but it's been two weeks now and he needs to finish the season the way he started it.

I don't buy this "old Bargn is back" theory.

In the past the knock on Bargnani has been his focus on defence and motivation, and I didn't see that creeping back in his game last night.

Last night the guy played his heart out, even knowing his shot wasn't falling, he remained focus on defence. If he wasn't trying, would we have been in a nail bitter with the Bulls?

He was 8/10 from the line, a +8, and still grabbed 7 boards. He will never be a great rebounder, but what distinguished him in those 13 games from last year was his focus on defence, and I saw that last night.

LX 03-25-2012 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halphbreedballer (Post 630139)
Give him a break he still doesn't have his leg strength back...

So why was he failing on threes before his injury? And if he doesn't have the legs to hit the shots, why take them?

LX 03-25-2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargn88 (Post 630141)
I don't buy this "old Bargn is back" theory.

In the past the knock on Bargnani has been his focus on defence and motivation, and I didn't see that creeping back in his game last night.

Last night the guy played his heart out, even knowing his shot wasn't falling, he remained focus on defence. If he wasn't trying, would we have been in a nail bitter with the Bulls?

He was 8/10 from the line, a +8, and still grabbed 7 boards. He will never be a great rebounder, but what distinguished him in those 13 games from last year was his focus on defence, and I saw that last night.

I agree that he's still better on defense, but his defense does drop off when his offensive game goes south. Most of those rebounds and freethrows last night took place in his strong first quarter. It's like there is a limit to the fight in him, and that is when the bad shots start getting chucked, or he defers when he's looking at a smaller defender on him. In that sense he's back to old habits and patterns. Although his earlier stint with strong play through 4 quarters in a good number of games is something we've been teased with at times through past seasons as well. The enigma remains. Casey can still make something of it I suppose, but I worry about what happens in meaningful games in the future. There's too much heart in too many other guys here, and in the coach, to see so many low-percentage shots and defense that still disappears too often.

jeffb 03-25-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargn88 (Post 630141)
I don't buy this "old Bargn is back" theory.


You don't buy that a player that's been inconsistent over his whole career minus 13 games might revert back to being inconsistent?

Now I'm not saying that's the case, but his track record makes one wonder. All we could do is see how he does for the remainder of the season.

VanCity 03-25-2012 02:02 PM

at the end of the day, i would rather bargnani take a three than anyone else on this team.

LOG 03-25-2012 02:26 PM

I don't mind guys like Caldy, Kleiza, Forbes(maybe), Bayless, shooting 3's as long as they are not chucking them. But Bargs shooting 3's (especially contested ones) was always a mystery to me. He was never a good consistent shooter from beyond the arc and he never will be. Another thing is that he takes too many contested mid range shots, which is a problem not only with Bargs, but most of the team leaders in the nba( but lets worry about our own problems)
I will try to explain what I mean, example: Bargs takes a contested shot early on the shot clock (there's probably 25-30% possibility of making it) vs passing to someone else or driving closer to the basket and earning roughly 60% chance of scoring (either score or draw a foul) Some will say, ''but he can make those'' sure he can but that is not a reason to seatle for a bad shot when there is a better option. Bottom line is we loose a lot of points because of those kind of shots, and Casey should stress that a lot.

finstock 03-25-2012 03:12 PM

If there's one thing, there are many things, but if he could only learn one thing from Dirk... more arc!

Bargs's bombs tend to be on the flatter side, especially when he's forcing something off the dribble.

Bill Haverchuck 03-25-2012 05:40 PM

More Cowbell!...I mean arc.

bjjs 03-25-2012 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 630127)
Since coming back he's playing like the same old Bargs, even his defense isn't as good as it was in january. Now obviously he was coming back from injury but it's been two weeks now and he needs to finish the season the way he started it.

That's where I've seen the biggest drop off. His head isn't in the game like it was, he's lacking passion once again.

LX 03-25-2012 07:29 PM

Yeah, to me the one version is just flat-out playing basketball, and the other is part of a basketball game. One is helping to define how the game is played, the other is giving the opposing team their chance to define how the game is played.

scarfox 03-25-2012 07:44 PM

In reality the guy is a 35% shooter, should be back to form within a week or so.

pzabby 03-25-2012 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 630227)
That's where I've seen the biggest drop off. His head isn't in the game like it was, he's lacking passion once again.

The passion isn't his problem, you can see he wants it, and not just the stats. He's having trouble adjusting to the pace of the game coming back, which happens to players more times than not.

tdotballing 03-27-2012 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOG (Post 630150)
I don't mind guys like Caldy, Kleiza, Forbes(maybe), Bayless, shooting 3's as long as they are not chucking them. But Bargs shooting 3's (especially contested ones) was always a mystery to me. He was never a good consistent shooter from beyond the arc and he never will be.


So you don't mind calderon, kleiza, bayless and forbes shooting 3s but not bargnani because he was "never a good consistent 3 pt shooter"...ok i gotcha :confused2:

Calderon: 37.9% 3pt career
bayless: 34.8%
kleiza: 33.7%
Forbes : 27.8%

Bargniani 36.5% 3pt

jeffb 03-27-2012 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdotballing (Post 630731)
So you don't mind calderon, kleiza, bayless and forbes shooting 3s but not bargniani ...ok i gotcha :confused2:

Calderon: 37.9% 3pt career
bayless: 34.8%
kleiza: 33.7%
Forbes : 27.8%

Bargniani 36.5%



Bargnani this season- 27.1 3PT% :puke:


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