Bargnani is becoming more accepting of coaching now - Page 2
Old 01-16-2008, 12:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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TJ was taking about personal goals, in addition to the obvious team goals.

JYD and Mo Pete both in the past stated their goals were to be all-stars and no one seemed to have a problem with it then.
My only problem was, Mo kept getting snubbed.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I tend to agree with raptor123 often. I think S.W.A.N. is being delusional at this point. If we had a decent back up to Jose....we'd have a better record. TJ Ford is a turnover prone, selfish point guard that will never make our team better as a starter. (unless he has a guy like Jose saving the team every game!!)

I think its ironic that TJ spoke about making the all-star team....and Jose is the only one thats really getting consideration as an allistar. TJ Ford had the opportunity to start many many games.....his name was never mentioned as an all-star....until he made the statement himself....(and if your thinking as i am.....i pretty much laughed at the notion.)

I always thought that Jose was a better pg, and better fit for this team. I'm glad most agree with me.... I guess thats the difference between good basketball instincts....and poor decision making.....reminds me of an Isiah Thomas mentality.

BTW.....Isiah....please start David Lee and Nate.....they're the only ones playing for ya!! Dummy
Since i dont' desire to push the point any further i'll say this.. you have big stones for standing here and saying you have better instincts for basketball than Bryan Colangelo... but heck..who am i to argue
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Since i dont' desire to push the point any further i'll say this.. you have big stones for standing here and saying you have better instincts for basketball than Bryan Colangelo... but heck..who am i to argue
Ah ha. Therein lies the rub. Do you think that if BC thought Jose was going to be as good (which we can agree....he is that good), he would still make that trade for T.J today?...

..I don't think so.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Since i dont' desire to push the point any further i'll say this.. you have big stones for standing here and saying you have better instincts for basketball than Bryan Colangelo... but heck..who am i to argue
LMAO ... Sorry, that was funny.

+1 SWAN
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Ah ha. Therein lies the rub. Do you think that if BC thought Jose was going to be as good (which we can agree....he is that good), he would still make that trade for T.J today?...

..I don't think so.
Impossible to say.. but the fact still remains he built his team around Ford and Bosh...and after Jose's improvement last year... Ford was still the guy.

If he trades Ford after he's healthy and decides Jose is the way of the future i'll be onboard because he'll obviously get some complimentary pieces in return for Tj... but until that happens you start Jose camp folks are just burning up oxygen really
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Ah ha. Therein lies the rub. Do you think that if BC thought Jose was going to be as good (which we can agree....he is that good), he would still make that trade for T.J today?...

..I don't think so.
Furthermore...

It's BC's job to project potential so I would argue he DID know Jose would be this good and still wanted to have a 2 guard tandem that featured TJ as a starter and Jose as a backup...knowing also that Jose's and TJ's personalities would allow them to co-exist as such.

I have been arguing all along too that 'this good' isnt' something we agree on. I think Jose is being built up too high based on the wrong numbers. Look at the wins and losses, not assists and turnovers.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:57 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Impossible to say.. but the fact still remains he built his team around Ford and Bosh...and after Jose's improvement last year... Ford was still the guy.

If he trades Ford after he's healthy and decides Jose is the way of the future i'll be onboard because he'll obviously get some complimentary pieces in return for Tj... but until that happens you start Jose camp folks are just burning up oxygen really

Bolded= oxygen burn justification
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I have been arguing all along too that 'this good' isnt' something we agree on. I think Jose is being built up too high based on the wrong numbers. Look at the wins and losses, not assists and turnovers.
Come on...How many of T.J's wins came with Jose carrying the second unit to it?

How many of Jose's wins have come with Darrick, and Dix backing him up.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:05 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Come on...How many of T.J's wins came with Jose carrying the second unit to it?

How many of Jose's wins have come with Darrick, and Dix backing him up.
Noted...but we're not losing games in the 10 minutes Martin and Dixon are on the court... our offence isn't stellar with Jose running the show and then drops way off to the other two. Our offence is wildly inconsistant and shooting percentage is generally and consistantly down despite having better shooters on the team.. that's the concerning part.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:13 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Noted...but we're not losing games in the 10 minutes Martin and Dixon are on the court... our offence isn't stellar with Jose running the show and then drops way off to the other two. Our offence is wildly inconsistant and shooting percentage is generally and consistantly down despite having better shooters on the team.. that's the concerning part.
For that be blame Jose....not the predictable, draw and kick offense that Sam has ran into the ground? If your trying to tell me T.J would get his team more open looks your insane.

Other than Kapono....who are these "better shooters" you speak of?

Secondarly..Teams don't give JKap onpen looks...the didn't even when T.J was in the line-up.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:15 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I didn't want to go into a Jose vs TJ since it's such a pointless conversation by now. All I wanted is to argue with this posts that claim that with TJ we would have a much better record by now ... Or that our schedule was soft, when we actually had the toughest schedule in the nba so far.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:37 PM   #32 (permalink)
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For that be blame Jose....not the predictable, draw and kick offense that Sam has ran into the ground? If your trying to tell me T.J would get his team more open looks your insane.

Other than Kapono....who are these "better shooters" you speak of?

Secondarly..Teams don't give JKap onpen looks...the didn't even when T.J was in the line-up.
I'm not insane...look at our shooting percentages last year with TJ running the show and Mo Pete instead of Kapono(.375 to .500 from 3) on the team..no Delfino(almost 40% from 3).

There isn't enough movement in the offense so they dont' have to slack off Kapono right now. Tj gets into the core, draws in the defense, kicks out to Bosh, to Moon to Kapono, or to Parker for a wide open corner three...that's what should be happening but isn't.
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:03 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I'm not insane...look at our shooting percentages last year with TJ running the show and Mo Pete instead of Kapono(.375 to .500 from 3) on the team..no Delfino(almost 40% from 3).

There isn't enough movement in the offense so they dont' have to slack off Kapono right now. Tj gets into the core, draws in the defense, kicks out to Bosh, to Moon to Kapono, or to Parker for a wide open corner three...that's what should be happening but isn't.
Wouldn't Mo's number be a reflection of the looks T.J got him?...or does that only fit when it suits your purposes
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Wouldn't Mo's number be a reflection of the looks T.J got him?...or does that only fit when it suits your purposes
Uh no... Kapono is a far better 3pt shooter than MoPete. I wouldn't have thought that was a disputable statement
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:13 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Uh no... Kapono is a far better 3pt shooter than MoPete. I wouldn't have thought that was a disputable statement
Of course not...but thats my point..

Delfino is not that much of a better shooter than Mo.

You said the team shooting percentage is down and it shouldnt be because they have "so many better shooters". I'm just saying we really only have one better shooter..and how long did he last in the starting lineup when T.J was getting him all those open looks?
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:13 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Watch out SWAN, Benzo LOVES Mo.
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Watch out SWAN, Benzo LOVES Mo.
Didn't have to out me soooo soon Bel....lol.
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Of course not...but thats my point..

Delfino is not that much of a better shooter than Mo.

You said the team shooting percentage is down and it shouldnt be because they have "so many better shooters". I'm just saying we really only have one better shooter..and how long did he last in the starting lineup when T.J was getting him all those open looks?
If you're going to quote me, please quote me dont' paraphrase. I simply said better shooters..not so many better shooters. Kapono and Delfino is an upgrade from Mo and Garbo.

Kapono not being in the starting lineup is more of a 'better for the team' move if you ask me(and Sam). Him being there was limiting Parker's effectiveness and as a lineup we weren't getting a good defensive flow going(plus getting slaughtered on the glass) so it didn't last. There were not enough games there for Kapono to get into an offensive rhythm with TJ and the other starters I dont' think... but okay in the limited time it's undeniable that Kapono wasn't effective.

I still think his effectiveness hasn't been exploited yet but there are factors for that...AB's stuggles, TJ's injury and Bosh's slow start all contributed to Kapono kinda getting lost in the shuffle..not to mention some inconsistant shooting on his part...but that's another thread.
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:27 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Didn't have to out me soooo soon Bel....lol.
Hey I was a huge mo pete fan too... i wish he didn't have to go, but it was time. Mo was a more complete player than Kapono is for sure. It's too bad he couldln't have been a raptor for life.
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:43 PM   #40 (permalink)
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He is doing pretty well in New Orleans isnt he? I think it turn out to be good for both parties. He is a good player, but he didnt have any room here, although he could have brough some good things this season. He is playing more time there in a good team I think and thanks to that Delfino and Moon had the playing time they needed. Both parties win.
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