Band of brothers - Page 7
Old 04-28-2014, 05:04 PM   #121 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,160
Representing:
Default

i guess the point i was trying to make that the eye test method is open to so many interpretations you really need to uses numbers in assisting to formulate an opinion.

demars passing and turnovers have been brutal, you can say it is because teamates aren't making shots, but a quick look at some of the shooting percentages would show that some of the guys are shooting quite well. You could say it is the defenses forcing him to pass, but then that would mean that someone whose greatest improvement this year suddenly has taken a big step back, or that his own poor shooting is allowing for one less thing for the defenses to worry about.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 05:09 PM   #122 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,053
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
I thought they did an amazing job of stopping the ball, trapping, and smothering him enough to make any pass difficult. And not only with him. The same happened with Vasquez and and pretty much anyone on the perimeter, or really beyond the perimeter the way they were going at it. Guys had to lob passes to the open man, which bought the defense enough to time to rotate over to where the pass went. The only problem was that they expended a lot of energy. But over the last two games it was really hard to get the ball inside without turning it over, and the side to side movement wasn't much easier. It was some really impressive, tough defense.
It was great defense, but the quick pass to the high post was often the correct play. I thought Demar was always holding out hope that the second defender would leave and by the time he started trying to pass it was a harder pass to make then if he anticipated the hard hedge and threw a nice hard bounce pass right off of the screen.

The one time the pass was made to JV at the free throw line, he had space galore. unfortunately he telegraphed the pass to the corner three and Kirilenko made the steal.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 05:16 PM   #123 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,160
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
The eye test is all relative to the beholder of the eye.

What we're seeing with Demar is often the attempt to use numbers to invalidate what eyes are seeing which holds little credence to the owners of said eyes.
what some are seeing is something that cannot be validated either way, some people look at demar with rose colored. they want so badly for him to be something huge that they will find the smallest things to try and use that to validate their opinions of him as some sort of almost there star. like a "b" to the superstars of the leagues "a".

Some people can look at their wife and see the woman they married, the wife of their children and an angel on earth, but others might look and think they would fuck her with someone else s dick. I liken some of the responses in regards to demar to the previous.

And reason being is that some of the strongest arguements for the next stage of demar is that alot of statistical evidence that suggests otherwise.
as I pointed out earlier his improvements is something that can be measured, and it has been done. this "x" factor is something that on the basis of a logical arguement cannot be proven. If the numbers over his 35+ minutes a game over an 82 game schedule in comparison over last seasons numbers(which can be broken down by range etc) show that his shooting has not improved overall, has decreased in 2pt% and increased in 3pt% then you cannot say that the eye test says otherwise.

Now of course no one said his shooting had improved i dont think, was just an example.

There are times when demar looks unstoppable, but there are times he looks like shit. so when taking an average of the highs and the lows you get what the stats tell us. might not be the whole story but at least it has more credence to build a formulated opinion on that just saying I watched the game, it went down like this. Or Sam Mitchell says A, numbers say b, im going with sam.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 05:48 PM   #124 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,560
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
It was great defense, but the quick pass to the high post was often the correct play. I thought Demar was always holding out hope that the second defender would leave and by the time he started trying to pass it was a harder pass to make then if he anticipated the hard hedge and threw a nice hard bounce pass right off of the screen.

The one time the pass was made to JV at the free throw line, he had space galore. unfortunately he telegraphed the pass to the corner three and Kirilenko made the steal.
Yeah, to me the difference between the two teams thus far appeared to be the mental game. The Nets played with really nice patience and got a lot of what they wanted. The Raptors have been rushing plays, rushing shots, and not generally getting what they want. Jack made a great point about all the pump fakes and ball fakes over the duration of the shot clock on the part of the Nets, and the panic that leaked into the Raptors offense too much. It would be nice to see that shifting a bit at this point.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 09:13 PM   #125 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,240
Representing:
Default

I think demar really needs to be measured as a SF going forward, because I think that's going to be his position in most games. It's a bit of a delicate distinction, but I've noticed that in the last couple of months, teams are more and more defending him with 3s and he's more and more defending 3s too.

I don't think demar will ever be a strong defender at the 2, but he does have a shot at being a solid one as a 3. Ross may need another 2 years until he's ready to take on guys like carmelo or lebron or even JJ. Until that time, it will probably be demar's job and with some added strength this off-season, he may turn out a dependable defender.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 09:20 PM   #126 (permalink)
a baller

Senior Member
 
bjjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,053
Representing:
Default

He already is dependable. He's been making defensive plays all year at the end of games. He's made defensive plays in the 4th quarter of this series.

You're right about the 2/3, he and Ross are essentially interchangeable. Alot of teams are using big threes who can't handle the 4 spot in a small ball lineup. That's not the case with either Ross or Demar.
bjjs is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 09:47 PM   #127 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,998
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
OMG. I don't know how to say tell you Top 5 and 10 are a big difference in quality of play?

You had him at 7th.. so now you had him in the top 5? Ok. Well.. That's probably right after this year so you weren't right either and undershot it. But if you want to come out and say he was that good last year or you knew he would be so much improved this year base don his preseason FG% I'm just going to laugh and ask to borrow your crystal ball since its not his FG% that's making a difference. And all my arguments are DD were about the PAST and written in past tense. And still....wtf are you dragging me into this for to prove how psychic you are. Go measure your dick against someone else and keep me the hell out of it.
I do not have a crystal ball, my observation was based on his play in the preseason, nothing more
I have no intention to drag you in to anything, I just remember that you were one of the people calling me out on it, that's why I mentioned your name. Did not think you would get so worked up about it. jeez..
LOG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 11:48 PM   #128 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,240
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
He already is dependable. He's been making defensive plays all year at the end of games. He's made defensive plays in the 4th quarter of this series.

You're right about the 2/3, he and Ross are essentially interchangeable. Alot of teams are using big threes who can't handle the 4 spot in a small ball lineup. That's not the case with either Ross or Demar.
he does appear to be better defensively in the 4th, I noticed that as well
but that doesn't excuse the sometimes atrocious defensive performance the rest of the time ... He has improved a lot on defense this year, but it would be very interesting to see a breakdown of his performance at the 3 vs the 2.

Very often he has major difficulties keeping his man in front of him when defending 2s, which in turn makes it very hard to mount a good defense, especially when lowry is also not dialed in.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 01:47 AM   #129 (permalink)
sticking to his guns... is stuck to his guns...

Senior Member

 
DanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 4,064
Representing:
Default

82games is the only site I know that even attempts to track player production by position played. They are not exactly dependable. Even DD's page has him playing 106% of the SG minutes, so obviously they've done the split wrong.

But for what it is worth (read: not that much), their breakdown has DeMar way better at SF than at SG, both offensively and defensively.
DanH is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 09:56 AM   #130 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,354
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
82games is the only site I know that even attempts to track player production by position played. They are not exactly dependable. Even DD's page has him playing 106% of the SG minutes, so obviously they've done the split wrong.
6% is overtime pay.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24