Band of brothers - Page 4
Old 04-26-2014, 01:08 PM   #61 (permalink)
threes and free throws

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JoeyJoJo sometimes can't catch a break!


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Old 04-26-2014, 03:33 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I am confused. I thought we were discussing my point about weak handle being a major flaw of our starting five outside Lowry and the source of most of these turnovers. I've never singled out DD specifically, although he should dribble the ball much better by now.

As far as the number of points - don't care too much. The whole team is pretty inefficient offensively, so won't talk about DD in that regard either.
Its not anyones handle. Go back and look at our turnovers. The overwhelming number of them are dumb mistakes more than steals. off fouls, 3 in the keys, stepping on the line, bad passes, etc. They only were credited with 7 steals.

I don't know how many times I can point to DD turnover rate which factors in usage to show that his handle is not worse than similar players and its just because we see it 82 times a year that it seems worse. I guess there's still a few holdouts thta beleieve this still...
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:49 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Its not anyones handle. Go back and look at our turnovers. The overwhelming number of them are dumb mistakes more than steals. off fouls, 3 in the keys, stepping on the line, bad passes, etc. They only were credited with 7 steals.

I don't know how many times I can point to DD turnover rate which factors in usage to show that his handle is not worse than similar players and its just because we see it 82 times a year that it seems worse. I guess there's still a few holdouts thta beleieve this still...
We'd have to agree to disagree. IMO, Pierce, JJ, Livingston are about 5 times the ball handlers over DeRozan, Amir and Ross. And that's the difference in turnovers, or at least a large part of it.
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Old 04-27-2014, 04:24 AM   #64 (permalink)
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just looking through this thread,

Snooch worst poster on this forum? lol so many -1's

bjjs +1
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Old 04-27-2014, 07:45 AM   #65 (permalink)
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just looking through this thread,

Snooch worst poster on this forum? lol so many -1's

bjjs +1
yeah, because some of the things I have posted are very deserving of the (minuses) from someone with a whole lot of time on their hands.

Bring em on
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:33 PM   #66 (permalink)
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We'd have to agree to disagree. IMO, Pierce, JJ, Livingston are about 5 times the ball handlers over DeRozan, Amir and Ross. And that's the difference in turnovers, or at least a large part of it.
Ok I get you. i agree amir has pretty much zero ability to handle the ball and Ross doesn't match up to any of those. but we aren't habitually turning it over from amir or ross over handling it (although they have). Just ;pointing out most of our turnovers are stupidity.

Last edited by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu; 04-27-2014 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:57 PM   #67 (permalink)
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just looking through this thread,

Snooch worst poster on this forum? lol so many -1's

bjjs +1
Derozan is a sacred cow here, criticize him in any way and you will get -1's
Say something good ( even if it's not necessarily true) you will get +1's
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:59 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Derozan is a sacred cow here, criticize him in any way and you will get -1's
Say something good ( even if it's not necessarily true) you will get +1's
Same goes for Casey lol
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:03 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Derozan is a sacred cow here, criticize him in any way and you will get -1's
Say something good ( even if it's not necessarily true) you will get +1's
Mehhh, I've criticized Derozan and even at times said we should see what his value is on the market, some agree and others don't but I think Amir is a much more sacred cow around here.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:08 PM   #70 (permalink)
and a 1, and a 2, and a 1,2,3,4!

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Mehhh, I've criticized Derozan and even at times said we should see what his value is on the market, some agree and others don't but I think Amir is a much more sacred cow around here.
Amir due to his heart and soul put into the team is loved by fans. So a large number would overvalue him, yes. However, they're not actually doing so because of Amir's role on the team and how much value that possesses. Advanced metrics can show how crucial Amir is to this team, and you seriously always undervalue him.

I'm not saying don't trade him for say a kevin love if the opportunity came along, but not as easily as you always say we should consider.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:22 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Same goes for Casey lol
Maybe, but not nearly as much a lot of posters would be happy to get rid of him.

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Mehhh, I've criticized Derozan and even at times said we should see what his value is on the market, some agree and others don't but I think Amir is a much more sacred cow around here.
Amir use to be, but not anymore. You and plenty of others criticize him in the game thread and you don't get hate for that.
Seems like some sees only black and white they jump on the bandwagon and than there is no reasoning with them, because Derozan can do no wrong in their eyes. Reminds me of Bargs era..
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:31 PM   #72 (permalink)
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There are also some who seem to think DeMar can do no good.

I don't see where there is a lot of room for much criticism of anyone. Ross has sucked, but it's pretty understandable.

How there is anything like the love of a Bargnani who continually failed to prove his worth is beyond my comprehension.

And finally, can we just shut up about getting thumbed up or down? It's starting to feel like that feature should just be trashed again.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:55 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Derozan is a sacred cow here, criticize him in any way and you will get -1's
Say something good ( even if it's not necessarily true) you will get +1's
Only when the criticism is complete stupidity and posters are searching for a reason so they post crap that they read on realgm.
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:03 PM   #74 (permalink)
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How there is anything like the love of a Bargnani who continually failed to prove his worth is beyond my comprehension.
I'm not comparing the two, but I am comparing the bandwagons. Just like with Bargs you bring up bad side of him and fanboys ignore it and turn it around to say that he spaces the floor and whatnot
You say Demar is a bad defender, and people close their eyes and bring up that he gets to the line and happily ignore atrocious defense.
Again not comparing the two, DD is a much much much better player (god I really hate Bargs)
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:09 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Only when the criticism is complete stupidity and posters are searching for a reason so they post crap that they read on realgm.
nonsense, I never go to realgm and I do criticize DD. But if it's all complete stupidity than I guess I really don't know jack shit about basketball.
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:33 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I'm not comparing the two, but I am comparing the bandwagons. Just like with Bargs you bring up bad side of him and fanboys ignore it and turn it around to say that he spaces the floor and whatnot
You say Demar is a bad defender, and people close their eyes and bring up that he gets to the line and happily ignore atrocious defense.
Again not comparing the two, DD is a much much much better player (god I really hate Bargs)
I don't see where the defense is so atrocious. That's not ignoring anything. Is he the reason the team has a top ten defense? Surely not. But he does play huge minutes on a team that is top ten. And you can clearly see where he does contribute to that. If it was all about him being atrocious, it's really hard to see how the team has any success defensively.

Last game he played some really good help defense. The team's defense fell apart when he was on the bench.He has a pretty decent defensive awareness. He is not good enough one on one to not risk picking up costly fouls. That could still change. We are looking at a player that continuously gets better. His defense has already improved a great deal. But he still gets tagged with overstated criticisms with words like atrocious. And to me that just sounds like needing to harp on something that isn't all that worthwhile harping on about. There is not a single player in this league that doesn't have elements in their game that can be picked away at on any given night, but that doesn't make it sensible.

Now if we want to talk about whether a team can be better or worse with or without a player as part of a whole, then there is something to discuss at any time. I can see where a lockdown defender in place of DeMar would be pretty sexy. But there had better be some kind of offset for the offense, particularly where it comes to getting to the line, and just the overall compete level and leadership.

Last edited by LX; 04-27-2014 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:51 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I don't see where the defense is so atrocious. That's not ignoring anything. Is he the reason the team has a top ten defense? Surely not. But he does play huge minutes on a team that is top ten. And you can clearly see where he does contribute to that. If it was all about him being atrocious, it's really hard to see how the team has any success defensively.

Last game he played some really good help defense. The team's defense fell apart when he was on the bench.He has a pretty decent defensive awareness. He is not good enough one on one to not risk picking up costly fouls. That could still change. We are looking at a player that continuously gets better. His defense has already improved a great deal. But he still gets tagged with overstated criticisms with words like atrocious. And to me that just sounds like needing to harp on something that isn't all that worthwhile harping on about. There is not a single player in this league that doesn't have elements in their game that can be picked away at on any given night, but that doesn't make it sensible. Now if we want to talk about whether a team can be better or worse with or without a player as part of a whole, then there is something to discuss at any time. I can see where a lockdown defender in place of DeMar would be pretty sexy. But there had better be some kind of offset for the offense, particularly where it comes to getting to the line, and just the overall compete level and leadership.
I agree that he wasn't that terrible for the most part during the season, but in the playoffs he is getting exposed big time.
Joe Johnson is scoring at will against him, so is Pierce. Don't know if we are watching the same games, but both Ross and Demar are absolutely brutal defensively in the PO.

Game 1
ORTG 80, DRTG 108

Game 2
ORTG 110, DRTG 114

Game 3
ORTG 110, DRTG 112

So that's -11.3 points per 100 possessions with DD on the floor
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Old 04-27-2014, 03:36 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I agree that he wasn't that terrible for the most part during the season, but in the playoffs he is getting exposed big time.
Joe Johnson is scoring at will against him, so is Pierce. Don't know if we are watching the same games, but both Ross and Demar are absolutely brutal defensively in the PO.

Game 1
ORTG 80, DRTG 108

Game 2
ORTG 110, DRTG 114

Game 3
ORTG 110, DRTG 112

So that's -11.3 points per 100 possessions with DD on the floor
Joe Johnson is scoring at will against the team. If DeMar was simply unengaged and uninterested, then i could see where the finger pointing comes into play. Paul Pierce playing pf has thrown everything off in terms of the team defense. And Amir has been the guy not moving and appearing unengaged, though i would guess it's more about what his body cannot do. Lowry has been extremely ineffective at the point of attack, again due to his body breaking down. With those guys at 100 percent DeMar would not be seen as being ineffective at all. He has contested well and lead JJ into help that has not been there. If this team could get back to hedging hard and swarming the paint it would be better off perhaps. Instead they have looked to take the three out of the equation. They just don't look to be in any shape to take away both the paint and the outside shots, but i think recognizing Lowry's and Amir's physical limitations could help them to be more successful as a team. Ultimately they are needing to remake themselves on the fly. That is why i wanted the team to ensure health rather than push for the third seed.
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Old 04-27-2014, 04:52 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I agree that he wasn't that terrible for the most part during the season, but in the playoffs he is getting exposed big time.
Joe Johnson is scoring at will against him, so is Pierce. Don't know if we are watching the same games, but both Ross and Demar are absolutely brutal defensively in the PO.

Game 1
ORTG 80, DRTG 108

Game 2
ORTG 110, DRTG 114

Game 3
ORTG 110, DRTG 112

So that's -11.3 points per 100 possessions with DD on the floor
Cool. Do the other 4 starters now.
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:32 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Cool. Do the other 4 starters now.
Im on the cell so not going type the whole thing, but after 3 games
TR ortg 50.3, drtg 110.6
KL ortg 110.6, drtg 111
AJ ortg 117.3, drtg. 111.3
JV ortg104.6, drtg 105

No surprises there especially with KL being hurt
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