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-   -   B&B Could Form a Killer Combination (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/b-b-could-form-killer-combination-11748.html)

Acie 11-26-2009 10:05 AM

B&B Could Form a Killer Combination
 
Quote:



If you go by statistics, one could make an argument Bosh and Bargnani are third-best. Bosh is averaging 25.4 points and 11.9 rebounds and Bargnani 17.4 and 6.5. In this era, getting 42.8 points and 18.4 rebounds per game out of your two low-post starters is impressive.

Of course, there's one statistic that doesn't look too good. The Raptors, expected by many to return to the playoffs after beefing up their roster, are a mere 7-9.

"Statistically, they're certainly putting up good numbers,'' Toronto general manager Bryan Colangelo said of his duo. "But, at the end of the day, we're not judged on stats. We're judged on team performance.''

Lately, that been quite uneven. The Raptors have dropped five of their past seven games, including an embarrassing 116-81 loss Wednesday at Charlotte.

"I would say we're up there, but we still have a long ways to go,'' Bosh said in comparing Toronto's duo to other top NBA low-post combinations. "We're both young players. There are still a lot of things that we can get better at... I think [Bargnani is] getting more comfortable and confident.''

Bargnani, a 42-percent shooter from three-point range who is hardly a traditional center, certainly is. Taken with the top pick in the 2006 draft, Bargnani at times looked to be in jeopardy of any BB initials standing for "Big Bust.'' In his first two seasons, he averaged 10.8 points and 3.8 rebounds while shooting 40.5 percent.

But Bargnani, 24, started to turn things around during the second half of last season, and finished the campaign with averages of 15.4 points and 5.3 rebounds. Although he's still a poor rebounder for a 7-footer, he did enough to get a five-year, $50 million contract extension that kicks in for 2010-11.

Some of Bargnani's future development hinges on whether Bosh returns. Any player would be much better alongside a four-time All-Star.

"We've been doing a pretty good job together,'' Bargnani said. "The most important thing is to try to win (so Bosh will stay). That's the main thing. I hope he stays. But I don't know. Nobody knows ... He will do whatever he wants to do. I just hope he stays.''

LINK - FANHOUSE

Superjudge 11-26-2009 10:08 AM

To be honest. At this point, I'm not seeing it.

babyface 11-26-2009 10:12 AM

Bargs is over thinking things again. He needs to just go with the flow and chuck a 3 if he needs to.

Windex 11-26-2009 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 277955)
To be honest. At this point, I'm not seeing it.

+ uno

DVS 11-26-2009 10:24 AM

The funniest is they called them Low-post scorers. Bargs porches on the 3 point line most of the time and plays a 2guard style offense and Bosh plays a little deeper but usually either shoots jumpers or beats his opponent facing him not posting up.

I think thats a problem with the raptors. Bosh is the easiest easy bucket.

Acie 11-26-2009 10:30 AM

I don't know.

Not saying you're entirely wrong, but this season I have seen more of an effort by both of them to back down their man, get into the paint and flip up a hook shot than ever before.

DVS 11-26-2009 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acie (Post 277963)
I don't know.

Not saying you're entirely wrong, but this season I have seen more of an effort by both of them to back down their man, get into the paint and flip up a hook shot than ever before.

This is true but overall its not their game. Neither player is the guy where a guard says. "hey if i drive i'll most likely get fouled, dish it to POST GUY, or POST GUY will grab the trash or hell i'll score outright". Our post players are more dynamic almost taking away from guard drive play.

What I'm saying is a little more dynamic than that and goes more to philosophy more than anything though. It also goes to the fact I think the Bosh and Bargs combo prob doesn't work.

Bmats7 11-26-2009 10:45 AM

Bosh/Bargs are averaging 43 points... that's alot. We can keep these 2 and we need the rest of our 3 players to be especially defensive.

Hinrich, Raja Bell, Tayshaun Prince, Bosh, Bargnani.

Those 3 guys arent even that expensive either. That is a team I know you guys would love watching everyday.

Acie 11-26-2009 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS (Post 277966)
This is true but overall its not their game. Neither player is the guy where a guard says. "hey if i drive i'll most likely get fouled, dish it to POST GUY, or POST GUY will grab the trash or hell i'll score outright". Our post players are more dynamic almost taking away from guard drive play.

What I'm saying is a little more dynamic than that and goes more to philosophy more than anything though. It also goes to the fact I think the Bosh and Bargs combo prob doesn't work.

I agree, either one paired with a banger or real active guy would be much preferable on the defensive end. Unfortunately, for this season at least that won't be the case. If just one of them would take some Clariton and not be allergic to contact we'd be much better off. You can see the difference even just having Amir out there with one of them makes.

DVS 11-26-2009 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acie (Post 277973)
I agree, either one paired with a banger or real active guy would be much preferable on the defensive end. Unfortunately, for this season at least that won't be the case. If just one of them would take some Clariton and not be allergic to contact we'd be much better off. You can see the difference even just having Amir out there with one of them makes.


I agree only problem is if you have Amir out there u need a driving 2guard on the floor to take advantage of the space. I would love to see almost like an Amir sub in results in a Belli sub in. This way u can see the continuity of all their skillz. You would see Belli driving more giving Bosh more space in the 10-15 foot zone he likes standing then Belli and Bosh also know Amir will be ready to take the trash out. This also results in Jose being a pure open shot shooter and facilitator rather than looking to score. The only problem with all this thought is when this move happens you need wright on the floor than giving you the solution to sit down Hedo and Bosh or Bargs and still not miss a beat.

Lastly, if Belli is gassed you could always give Weems a shot of being "The Driver" in this concept thus resulting

Jack to just PG minutes


The end

Rant over for now

Superjudge 11-26-2009 12:46 PM

Guys,

The quality of our back ups is low. The odd big game from these guys gives us all the impression of bigger things to come with more minutes. Most these guys have proven unable to do these things, thats why they are bench players.

I see what you're looking at doing, but honestly, our horses, our starters, are our best players. You have to go with that.

DVS 11-26-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 278073)
Guys,

The quality of our back ups is low. The odd big game from these guys gives us all the impression of bigger things to come with more minutes. Most these guys have proven unable to do these things, thats why they are bench players.

I see what you're looking at doing, but honestly, our horses, our starters, are our best players. You have to go with that.

If you saw what I was doing was get Jack off the 2guard position. Then what you saw was correct

Kuzzy 11-26-2009 03:33 PM

i dont see it either... to be honest they both play better alongside Amir lol

Bileur 11-26-2009 04:41 PM

I'd really like to see them get better at finding each other for the easy pass. Particularily Bosh to Bargnani, these guys are both far too good shooters for them to be missing quality scoring chances by not passing and trying to draw the foul or chucking up an awkward shot. It's really ridiculous, if the plan is to build around these two they need to find a way to create some kind of chemistry together. They've been together for years, there is no excuse for their lack of feel for each other.

I still remember salivating at Bargs's bounce pass to Bosh for the missed shot early in his career and thinking what that could become, we have not seen it consistently since.

bjjs 11-26-2009 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuzzy (Post 278259)
i dont see it either... to be honest they both play better alongside Amir lol

Which is why it's time for one of them to go. They just don't play well together. It's been to long with no progress.

Mitchell would always come up with some sort of series of plays to get them going together, he even had them running a little 4,5 pick and roll at the free throw line which lasted all of 2 games.

Triano has tried stuff with them, but they always end up gravitating to the other three guys on the court.

To be honest, it doesn't really seem like they like eachother all that much.

This is all speculation, but to a degree, Bargnani has always been given things whereas Bosh has earned them, and I'm sure Bosh has a bit of a lingering beef with Bargnani over that.

I know their are a lot of Bosh fans. But the fact is, he gets booed more than anybody when things aren't going well, and at times Bargnani gets some pretty loud cheers for doing some pretty mediocre things on the court.


Their just isn't any chemistry between them and I think the hold up of them working well together probably has more to with Bosh than Bargs. They should be unstoppable when working together.

They should be so unstoppable, that their is no reason for Hedo to be on the team.

brothersteve 11-26-2009 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjjs (Post 278312)
Which is why it's time for one of them to go. They just don't play well together. It's been to long with no progress.

Mitchell would always come up with some sort of series of plays to get them going together, he even had them running a little 4,5 pick and roll at the free throw line which lasted all of 2 games.

Triano has tried stuff with them, but they always end up gravitating to the other three guys on the court.

To be honest, it doesn't really seem like they like eachother all that much.

This is all speculation, but to a degree, Bargnani has always been given things whereas Bosh has earned them, and I'm sure Bosh has a bit of a lingering beef with Bargnani over that.

I know their are a lot of Bosh fans. But the fact is, he gets booed more than anybody when things aren't going well, and at times Bargnani gets some pretty loud cheers for doing some pretty mediocre things on the court.


Their just isn't any chemistry between them and I think the hold up of them working well together probably has more to with Bosh than Bargs. They should be unstoppable when working together.

They should be so unstoppable, that their is no reason for Hedo to be on the team.

Jose and Bosh go out of their way to make sure Bargs is never better than the 3rd or 4th option on the floor.

Jose would rather pass to Bosh in a double-team and Bosh would rather turn it over than pass it back to a wide open Bargs.

The Chemistry issues are all one-way issues.
Hedo and Belinelli tend to be the only ones willing to set Bargs up when he is open.

bjjs 11-26-2009 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brothersteve (Post 278376)
Jose and Bosh go out of their way to make sure Bargs is never better than the 3rd or 4th option on the floor.

Jose would rather pass to Bosh in a double-team and Bosh would rather turn it over than pass it back to a wide open Bargs.

The Chemistry issues are all one-way issues.
Hedo and Belinelli tend to be the only ones willing to set Bargs up when he is open.

I see Belli and Hedo look off Bargs quite a bit as well. Belli actually seems to have better chemistry with Amir because Amir actually provides some movement going towards the rim.


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