Atlanta Raptors - Page 2
Old 03-22-2012, 12:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Surely there is no way we'd draft a Marvin Harrison type of player over a Chris Paul or Deron Williams type of player, is there?
Marvin Williams? Or am I missing something?
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I meant Marvin Williams, but after all the Peyton Manning overload it came out Harrison.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm a basketball fan first and foremost, so just give me a team that can win 50 for once, and maybe think of bigger things from there. Teams like Utah and Houston and San Antonio were so called 2nd tier teams for a long time, which meant they had more successful seasons than we've ever seen here, and they did it year after year after year, and eventually they did get to the big show.

If Atlanta doesn't dothe same it could have as much to do with the culture surrounding the team, and the culture within, as anything else. If we've learned one thing here it's that getting to that 50 win level is not easy. If they have the right frame of mind from the start right across the organization, and they can make the leap to where they have successful seasons competing right to the end, then there's no reason to compare them to Atlanta necessarily.

If this team gets built around a core of solid two-way players, and a well-balanced roster with well-defined roles from 1 through 15, then I'll be happier than shit. That's basketball to me. If we look for the right all-star to define everything and sell tickets accordingly, I could see myself losing interest in this franchise altogether by the time the third decade of it's existence comes along.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Atlanta over valued Josh Smith
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Atlanta over valued Josh Smith
yep - we need to make sure we don't do anything like that
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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yep - we need to make sure we don't do anything like that
And yet that's what small-market (or foreign-market) teams are forced to do year after year to retain their talent.

That's why it's so nice to have a franchise-level player - you simply can't overpay him.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:06 PM   #27 (permalink)
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And yet that's what small-market (or foreign-market) teams are forced to do year after year to retain their talent.

That's why it's so nice to have a franchise-level player - you simply can't overpay him.
If there is a plan to build a certain kind of team, there should not be any need to feel forced to overpay to retain someone that isn't making it work. Overpaying for a verifiable glue guy, sure, but that isn't anything that holds a team back. Let's go back to the Spurs - a small market team. They had a hall of famer in Rodman. Did they worry about retaining him? No. They decided that they were better off without him, and they kept rolling along.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I'm hoping we land the #1 pick and trade it for a boatload! So much hype on Davis, he's sure to bust if we keep him!
C'mon man...

A guy like Anthony Davis can provide us much needed interior defense and rebounding. He isn't just all hype and potential and all that. He can contribute immediately - which is an aspect of a player that most GMs overlook when drafting a player. Just because you have Bargs at the 4 doesn't mean you should draft somebody else when you get the top pick. And also you are undervaluing bargs, he can net us a decent return that can be used to fill other spots.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:13 PM   #29 (permalink)
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And yet that's what small-market (or foreign-market) teams are forced to do year after year to retain their talent.

That's why it's so nice to have a franchise-level player - you simply can't overpay him.
Unfortunately the chances of getting a TRUE "franchise player" (going by the definition of what I've heard on this board) is pretty much akin to winning the lottery. Bosh and Vince are the best players that we've ever had and neither was good enough to wear that title (according to most Raps fans).

So if we're waiting for a player BETTER than those 2? And then praying that he wants to stick around here?

Hate to be a negative nancy but I just don't see that happening.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Josh Smith is 26. He's got another big pay day coming up, if not with Atlanta, from somebody else.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:35 PM   #31 (permalink)
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C'mon man...

A guy like Anthony Davis can provide us much needed interior defense and rebounding. He isn't just all hype and potential and all that. He can contribute immediately - which is an aspect of a player that most GMs overlook when drafting a player. Just because you have Bargs at the 4 doesn't mean you should draft somebody else when you get the top pick. And also you are undervaluing bargs, he can net us a decent return that can be used to fill other spots.
I never said AD is all hype, just implied that he's not without risk either. Not every player maximizes potential and I'd suggest more fail to do so than actually do.

As for undervaluing AB, I totally agree. Happens all the time on here, I guess I just got sucked in to it from being surrounded by guys that constantly undervalue him.

All in all, we should absolutely trade the pick if we get the #1 pick and I'm sure we'd get a huge haul! Booyah!
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:40 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I never said AD is all hype, just implied that he's not without risk either. Not every player maximizes potential and I'd suggest more fail to do so than actually do.

As for undervaluing AB, I totally agree. Happens all the time on here, I guess I just got sucked in to it from being surrounded by guys that constantly undervalue him.

All in all, we should absolutely trade the pick if we get the #1 pick and I'm sure we'd get a huge haul! Booyah!
that's what we should have done with the Bargnani #1 pick. and how is he undervalued? if anything he's overvalued. he hasn't put together ONE good season and we're still waiting on his "potential". he's already in his 7th season. wait any longer and he's on the down swing of his career....
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:50 PM   #33 (permalink)
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that's what we should have done with the Bargnani #1 pick. and how is he undervalued? if anything he's overvalued. he hasn't put together ONE good season and we're still waiting on his "potential". he's already in his 7th season. wait any longer and he's on the down swing of his career....
We should have traded Bosh before he became a UFA, we should have drafted Wade, we should have kept the pick and taken Hibbert, we should have drafted Jrue, we should have done this, we should have done that..... you're living in the past man, you're hung up on some clown from the sixties man...


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Old 03-22-2012, 05:59 PM   #34 (permalink)
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We should have traded Bosh before he became a UFA, we should have drafted Wade, we should have kept the pick and taken Hibbert, we should have drafted Jrue, we should have done this, we should have done that..... you're living in the past man, you're hung up on some clown from the sixties man...

The Best of George Costanza - The Fire - YouTube
we shouldn't trade the #1 pick if we do get it
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:15 PM   #35 (permalink)
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we shouldn't trade the #1 pick if we do get it
In my opinion, it would be foolish to not entertain the idea. To say that we shouldn't trade it unequivocally suggests that one believes #1 overall picks can't ever fail. Anthony Davis isn't a lock.... there is a long list of prospects that have failed with the hype he's getting.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:36 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm sorry, but I'm calling (hoping?) for them to find a way to get a stud player at some point. There's still time to see who develops how along with this true re-build. But if we can go 6 years in tier 2, we can go six years in tier 2 with a stud and at least take our shot in the playoffs where studs get treated like gold.

I liked the Vince Carter playoff era and the Chris Bosh playoff era, but they ended badly and at some point there's got to be more than 1st or second round exits. The Pistons were a nice story, but the exception. You need guys who parade to the foul line. And those are studs.

And our market has something hung on it that we still have to shake. I remember that Atlanta Hawks being horrible and having no fans in the seats at all. It was embarassing. But I don't remember league-wide disdain, total ignorance like calling it a small market team and constant open mocking.

If we hover around tier 2, the 2nd we fall off, the ignorant clowns are going to have us right back as NBA Siberia.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:20 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Of course a stud would be nice. But it's hardly the answer to my prayers. The true exception is being successful without a strong team in place, stud or no stud. The Raptors have never gone beyond mediocrity. They've had some good teams and some real good players, and had they taken the next step things might be a whole lot different. As things turned out we are NBA Siberia, because we are one of maybe 3 teams that hasn't managed to win 50 games over the last 20 years.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:40 PM   #38 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

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We're also NBA Siberia because many NBA fans south of here are ignorant to what this market is. That and, much like the message Chris Bosh left us when he was leaving, they're going to have to spend......and stop pretending this is Milwaukee. The organization is not losing money and it's the 4th largest market in North America.

You have your advantage of 2 high lottery picks, bad money coming off the books and unlike most teams you get to see what the young players can do.

Easy to say with someone else's money, but....I want them to put the right pieces in place for next year and spend not for the aim of hopefully being a playoff team, but to join the other big markets, NY, Miami and Chicago for a legitimate shot at eastern conference finals for a good 5 years.

That means respect, recognition and a chance, not to be penciled in for an ass whipping in the first round and 5 straight years of 17th pick in the draft.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
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In my opinion, it would be foolish to not entertain the idea. To say that we shouldn't trade it unequivocally suggests that one believes #1 overall picks can't ever fail. Anthony Davis isn't a lock.... there is a long list of prospects that have failed with the hype he's getting.
I've mentioned that Davis can contribute immediately, can impact the team as soon as he's on the floor because of his skillset. He has quickness and length and would be a good anchor on the defensive end, playing in Casey's hedge and recover system. He's showing an offensive game that is decent but not spectacular and will come around even more by playing hard on defense. Also, it's not said and done that he cannot play with Bargnani...split the minutes between them, let's see who plays better (although this would slow down the rebuilding process). It's just that, by trading the top pick (if we ever get it), it would be difficult to net an equal return.

And what has Bargs done to make him untouchable? I know who he is, but I don't really know what's going on too much with him. I don't even know what he's done. Like, I have no idea what you guys are talking about...I don't even know what the fuck is going on. What the fuck is going on? Who is this kid? I've heard about him and stuff like that, but what's he been doing? Is he getting like triple doubles or some shit? He's averaging 24 and 7 rpg in a 15 win Raptor team? No shit...Jesus Christ. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:55 PM   #40 (permalink)
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24 and 7? Make it 19 and 6.
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