Armstong: The kid gloves are finally off - Page 4
Old 04-27-2011, 01:50 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Exactly. If that's the case nobody should want Pritchard anywhere near this team after picking Oden over Durant. Easy to say that now.
Actually, no one should want Pritchard for threatening to take legal action if anyone signed Miles.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:51 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Bullshit. Aldridge a couple years ago was considered to be a disapointment and if you reacall that draft at all Bargnani was a good pick at the time. As for Hibbert, hindsight is all well and good, but not many if any at all, were whining at the time.
Re Aldridge - I don't recall Aldridge ever being considered a "dissapointment" and I vividly recall most fans wanting the Raptors to draft Aldridge in that draft. Bargnani was regarded as an intriguing pick because he was a big who could score outside. Not because he was a defensive/rebounding presence and that's exactly my point. Why are we ragging on Bargnani for being the player he's always been? From day 1, people have been on him for lack of defense, toughness, rebounding....if we wanted that player, why the heck didn't we take him in the first place in the draft?

Re Hibbert - Correct. In fact, I was excited at the prospect of O'Neal and Bosh together too at the time. However, I'm not paid to make the decisions and neither are any of the other fans out there. BC is. It's his job to evaluate talent and make the decisions and if they backfire, no matter how good things sounded at the time, it has to be on him.

And with regards to the Oden vs. Durant post, hard to knock Oden for being a bust given his injuries. We'll likely never know how good a pro he could have been unfortunately.

Last edited by Leafhater; 04-27-2011 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:00 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Re Aldridge - I don't recall Aldridge ever being considered a "dissapointment" and I vividly recall most fans wanting the Raptors to draft Aldridge in that draft. Bargnani was regarded as an intriguing pick because he was a big who could score outside. Not because he was a defensive/rebounding presence and that's exactly my point. Why are we ragging on Bargnani for being the player he's always been? From day 1, people have been on him for lack of defense, toughness, rebounding....if we wanted that player, why the heck didn't we take him in the first place in the draft?

Re Hibbert - Correct. In fact, I was excited at the prospect of O'Neal and Bosh together too at the time. However, I'm not paid to make the decisions and neither are any of the other fans out there. BC is. It's his job to evaluate talent and make the decisions and if they backfire, no matter how good things sounded at the time, it has to be on him.

And with regards to the Oden vs. Durant post, hard to knock Oden for being a bust given his injuries. We'll likely never know how good a pro he could have been unfortunately.
Aldridge was considered soft up until this season.... you're just not remembering correctly.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:01 PM   #64 (permalink)
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And with regards to the Oden vs. Durant post, hard to knock Oden for being a bust given his injuries. We'll likely never know how good a pro he could have been unfortunately.
i don't think anyone is knocking oden, they're knocking pritchard for picking him. in your words,

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I'm not paid to make the decisions and neither are any of the other fans out there. pritchard is. It's his job to evaluate talent and make the decisions and if they backfire, no matter how good things sounded at the time, it has to be on him.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:03 PM   #65 (permalink)
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i don't think aldridge was a dissappointment a couple years ago. it was just that he really broke out this year and prior to that he's been good and improving every year. i guess people don't hear much about him becuase he's in portland and BRoy was doing his thang then.

i remember in the 06 draft it was pretty divided between aldridge and bargnani. but it was clear that BC was in love with AB and the media made comparisons to dirk. the fans read into that so draft day went by fine. i'm not saying this in hindsight, this was how i felt at the time and at the time i was really hoping that we would draft LA, because i just don't really trust euros (just my intuition maybe). especially since Bargnani was the first euro to be picked 1st overall. and i also thought LA was more fit to play the C alongside Bosh at PF.
so when we did draft Bargnani i was a little dissappointed but not THAT disappointed cuz there was a chance he would turn into the next dirk and prove me wrong
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:10 PM   #66 (permalink)
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i don't think anyone is knocking oden, they're knocking pritchard for picking him. in your words,
There is a big difference in the Oden/Durant situation though. For all we know, Greg Oden could have been every bit as big a star as Durant has turned out to be if it were not for his wonky knee. Bargnani hasn't had any health issues. He's had the same issues since day 1 of his pro career.

It's hard to fault a GM for drafting a guy who never really has a chance at success due to injury
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:12 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Dallas took Dirk over Pierce in the first round... that could have easily combusted in their face.

Also, at the time of the draft, Aldridge's ceiling was seen to be much lower than Bargnani's..... a testament to how much of a crapshoot the draft is. Look at Derozan, taken 9th, and the guys taken before him.

Colangelo should be commended for the draft.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:22 PM   #68 (permalink)
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There is a big difference in the Oden/Durant situation though. For all we know, Greg Oden could have been every bit as big a star as Durant has turned out to be if it were not for his wonky knee. Bargnani hasn't had any health issues. He's had the same issues since day 1 of his pro career.

It's hard to fault a GM for drafting a guy who never really has a chance at success due to injury
oden had injury concerns prior to draft day. it's not like this was a huge surprise. it was up to pritchard to do his due dilligence.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:23 PM   #69 (permalink)
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It was the wrong pick. Portand has made the playoffs three straight years in the tough western conference, and Toronto has missed the playoffs in the same time period in the weak East. This year the spotlight was on both players. With Roy & Oden riddled with injury, Aldridge was the their top player and brought his team to 5th in the Western Conference. With Bosh gone, it was now Bargnani's team, and he rode his team to the third worst record in the NBA. People will compare teams, but which player brought his A game when their team needed him most. Bargnani's teammates say they need a real Center, and his GM has finally recognized his prize draft pick showed a poor effort in defense and rebounding.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:23 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Dallas took Dirk over Pierce in the first round... that could have easily combusted in their face.
to be precise, dallas drafted tractor traylor and traded him to the bucks for dirk.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:25 PM   #71 (permalink)
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to be precise, dallas drafted tractor traylor and traded him to the bucks for dirk.
Which is hilarious.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:31 PM   #72 (permalink)
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oden had injury concerns prior to draft day. it's not like this was a huge surprise. it was up to pritchard to do his due dilligence.
Oden had a wrist injury, which isn't a huge concern for a C with a power game. He was still the consensus #1 pick, and for good reason. He was even knocking down his FTs left handed while playing with that injury.

To the best of my knowledge his knee injuries developed as a pro, which was unfortunate for Oden, Portland, and for fans of the NBA in general. Oden was a once in a generation talent.

Also, you need to keep in mind that draft prospects and their agents have no incentive to disclose potential health issues prior to the draft.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:34 PM   #73 (permalink)
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to be precise, dallas drafted tractor traylor and traded him to the bucks for dirk.
true, but it was done with the intent of getting dirk, who went 9th instead of Pierce who went 10th.

So I guess Milwaukee should be credited with drafting Dirk for Dallas after being instructed...
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:35 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Oden had a wrist injury, which isn't a huge concern for a C with a power game. He was still the consensus #1 pick, and for good reason. He was even knocking down his FTs left handed while playing with that injury.

To the best of my knowledge his knee injuries developed as a pro, which was unfortunate for Oden, Portland, and for fans of the NBA in general. Oden was a once in a generation talent.

Also, you need to keep in mind that draft prospects and their agents have no incentive to disclose potential health issues prior to the draft.
He had knee problems in high school if i'm not mistaken.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:39 PM   #75 (permalink)
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He had major hip surgery when he was 12 that left him with a limp and one leg being longer than the other.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:40 PM   #76 (permalink)
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He had knee problems in high school if i'm not mistaken.
nope.

he had hip surgery in grade 6, which caused one leg to be longer than the other, but had no definitive knee injuries.

but this is exactly it - a massive guy that looks a lot older than he is (!?!), who has one leg longer than the other, who moves slowly and who has had wrist injuries in the year prior to the draft.

there is a lot of potential and a lot of risk. it is by no means a definite problem to take him #1, but there is massive risk involved, when everyone can see a hugely talented guy at #2 with less risk.

pritchard took a gamble and lost. that's on him, as it is his job to do his research and make the right call.

i think pritchard is a great gm, i just think people need to apply the same criticisms to both he and bc, who both have the same job.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:50 PM   #77 (permalink)
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i think pritchard is a great gm, i just think people need to apply the same criticisms to both he and bc, who both have the same job.
Or any other GM. Let's face it, the draft is not an exact science. Any GM with experience will eventually make mistakes in the draft, and trades for that matter. The law of averages dictate that. You can't bat 1000 forever. And the thing about deeming them a "mistake", is the resoning for the pick(s) and or trades at the time has to be taken into account when looking back.

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Old 04-27-2011, 03:13 PM   #78 (permalink)
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nope.

he had hip surgery in grade 6, which caused one leg to be longer than the other, but had no definitive knee injuries.

but this is exactly it - a massive guy that looks a lot older than he is (!?!), who has one leg longer than the other, who moves slowly and who has had wrist injuries in the year prior to the draft.

there is a lot of potential and a lot of risk. it is by no means a definite problem to take him #1, but there is massive risk involved, when everyone can see a hugely talented guy at #2 with less risk.

pritchard took a gamble and lost. that's on him, as it is his job to do his research and make the right call.

i think pritchard is a great gm, i just think people need to apply the same criticisms to both he and bc, who both have the same job.
Again, you are comparing apples to oranges. As another poster said, Oden had no significant injury concerns coming out of college. His knee problems happened when he was a pro. Pritchard can't be blamed for taking a guy that developed health issues as a pro.

Pritchard got unlucky. Colangelo ended up with a soft 7 footer with an outside game which is precisely the guy he drafted on draft day.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:27 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Again, you are comparing apples to oranges. As another poster said, Oden had no significant injury concerns coming out of college. His knee problems happened when he was a pro. Pritchard can't be blamed for taking a guy that developed health issues as a pro.

Pritchard got unlucky. Colangelo ended up with a soft 7 footer with an outside game which is precisely the guy he drafted on draft day.
it's not apples and oranges at all. if you are drafting a big guy you need to look at whether or not he looks creaky, regardless of knee injuries. oden looked creaky, and everyone was talking about it.

every player can be expected to develop talent as they mature. developing agility and durability is extremely unlikely. so bc took less of a gamble with Bargs than pritchard did with oden. Bargs turned out to be a decent pick, if not optimum for that draft class. oden turned out to be a huge bust for precisely the reason that people were worried about him. to say he just developed those issues as a pro is misleading. it was the #1 concern about him coming out of college.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:50 PM   #80 (permalink)
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All I remember about Oden is how much of a beast he was, how he was able to dominate in college with one good hand, and how it would be impossible not to pick him. I only remember talk of creaky legs after the draft. That doesn't excuse Pritchard, but I would think the issue Acie brought up was a bigger problem for him. Threatening other GM's with a lawsuit can't be a good way of securing your position as one of 30 GM's.
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