Armstong: The kid gloves are finally off - Page 3
Old 04-25-2011, 09:50 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Do you think it's possible that it's a conditioning problem?

One of the reasons people never give it all is because of fatigue. Sometimes he just settles for outside shots and give up on defence and rebounding.

Andrea usually starts out hot because he starts aggressively, but then settles down as the game progresses. Wouldn't surprise if he's just not fit physically.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:07 PM   #42 (permalink)
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He is what he is.. he will never be a good defender or rebounder... deal with it or deal him are the only options
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:37 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Do you think it's possible that it's a conditioning problem?

One of the reasons people never give it all is because of fatigue. Sometimes he just settles for outside shots and give up on defence and rebounding.

Andrea usually starts out hot because he starts aggressively, but then settles down as the game progresses. Wouldn't surprise if he's just not fit physically.
Yeah, compared to the hustle players on this team, Bargs never really looked fit. His arms are flabby as hell. No muscle definition. Too much pasta.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:57 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Yeah, compared to the hustle players on this team, Bargs never really looked fit. His arms are flabby as hell. No muscle definition. Too much pasta.
That could be a possibility. Him and Ajinca kinda had the same build :S and Ajinca was out of shape I think
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:03 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Do you think it's possible that it's a conditioning problem?

One of the reasons people never give it all is because of fatigue. Sometimes he just settles for outside shots and give up on defence and rebounding.

Andrea usually starts out hot because he starts aggressively, but then settles down as the game progresses. Wouldn't surprise if he's just not fit physically.
I've been thinking since his rookie year that he won't have his break out season until he shows up to training camp ripped.

The NBA is far more athletic than Euroleague, and that's the part of the game that European players especially struggle with. College players see some world class athletes, but it is still a big adjustment for them too. Just imagine going up against Dwight Howard, or Shaq in his prime for the first time. Yikes!

Bargs has been getting by on his skill level on offense, on defense though he's no where near athletic enough to deal with NBA players at PF, C, or any other position. It might be more of a curse than a blessing that his skill level is so high. European players that aren't 7 feet tall with a ridiculous face up game all the way out to the three point line get exposed right away by athletic NBA defenders.

There are guys that make a living in the NBA that can't shoot free throws, or make jump shots, as well as a lot of high school players. But they have a place in the league because they're long, fast and strong, so they can negate their opponents' advantage in skill level.

I think that Bargnani's weaknesses were on display this year more than at any other time in his career. If he's not ready for training camp this year, I doubt he'll ever really get it.

Not as a Raptor, anyway.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:07 AM   #46 (permalink)
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i think people confuse his lack of basketball iq with lack of effort.

not to say hes the hardest worker out there, b/c hes def not... but i think he tries and puts a decent effort in. he just gets lost out there really easily especially on defensive end, doesn't know where to be on defense and often ppl drive by him and/or overpower him easily because of it. he always looks like hes trying to find his man or figure out where to be. by the time he finds out, its too late, shit turns sour and the team is running down the court satisfied with their easy bucket. his body works faster than his brain

As a result, hes also never in the right spot to gather rebounds...hes got to get over that rookie like timidness, i just dont understand why hes got to be so awkward out there...should be comfortable playing in the nba by now...only if his defense were half as good as his offense
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:27 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DonMughal View Post
Yeah, compared to the hustle players on this team, Bargs never really looked fit. His arms are flabby as hell. No muscle definition. Too much pasta.
fitness isn't all about muscle definition and bulk.....
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:54 AM   #48 (permalink)
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fitness isn't all about muscle definition and bulk.....
No, it's mostly about the ability to play at the same high activity level for 48 minutes without losing the lift on your jump shot.

On defense it's even more important. A fatigued player won't do these well, among other things:

- Hustle after rebounds.
- Close out on shooters.
- Rotate quickly.
- Get back on the break.

Sound like anyone on the Raptors?

Just because Bargnani isn't fat doesn't mean he's got the endurance required to play a starting role in the NBA.

Other than endurance, if he elevated his conditioning level in the right way he should have better quickness, which would give him more reaction time when providing help D.

For me, the model NBA athletes are the KG, Jordan types. Sinewy, thin, strong, quick and durable.

I don't think it would be wise for Bargnani to bulk up, but I think he could do a lot better with the bulk he already has.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:58 AM   #49 (permalink)
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fitness isn't all about muscle definition and bulk.....
Your right and this has been proven when you look at guys like Pau Gasol and Tim Duncan.
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:00 AM   #50 (permalink)
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The pasta primavera isn't going to help him though.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:03 AM   #51 (permalink)
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trade Bargs right now no matter what you get in return. The thing alone that there will be no more Bargs thread is an upgrade. Jocking aside he needs to go 5, years are enough, he didn't show what expected so another year of waiting for things he probably won't do is a waste of time. Let him keep his talents to another team ( i'm sure there're a lot of team that would like to have him, over 21 ppg are something you have to think about) and if he will became a rebounding force or a defensive stopper in another place so be it, he'll never be that man here.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:55 AM   #52 (permalink)
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All this panic on trading Bargs now is confusing ...
He's a big man with good durability, strong offensive skills, and a good team player. There won't be any trouble trading Bargs. Good salary for a decent return ...

We aren't going anywhere fast as a team ... BC could and should make a trade if a team is offering what we need.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:01 AM   #53 (permalink)
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The pasta primavera isn't going to help him though.
Don't you doubt the Primo!
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:37 AM   #54 (permalink)
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All this panic on trading Bargs now is confusing ...
He's a big man with good durability, strong offensive skills, and a good team player. There won't be any trouble trading Bargs. Good salary for a decent return ...

We aren't going anywhere fast as a team ... BC could and should make a trade if a team is offering what we need.
+1 Well put.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:32 PM   #55 (permalink)
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To quote the great Dennis Green (almost anyway)

"He is who we thought he was".

If Colangelo wasn't interested in a one dimensional offensive threat with range but completely lacking in defense and toughness, why exactly did he draft Andrea Bargnani over Lamarcus Aldridge?

Frankly, the kid gloves should be off with Colangelo too. It's all well and good to acknowledge your mistakes and try and correct them but at some point, people have to recognize that we're going in the wrong direction.

Drafting Aldridge and keeping Hibbert instead of throwing him away for a washed up O'neal and this team would be light years ahead of where they are now...they may have even been able to keep Bosh. Who knows.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:38 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Leafhater View Post
To quote the great Dennis Green (almost anyway)

"He is who we thought he was".

If Colangelo wasn't interested in a one dimensional offensive threat with range but completely lacking in defense and toughness, why exactly did he draft Andrea Bargnani over Lamarcus Aldridge?

Frankly, the kid gloves should be off with Colangelo too. It's all well and good to acknowledge your mistakes and try and correct them but at some point, people have to recognize that we're going in the wrong direction.

Drafting Aldridge and keeping Hibbert instead of throwing him away for a washed up O'neal and this team would be light years ahead of where they are now...they may have even been able to keep Bosh. Who knows.
Without Colangelo we wouldn't have drafted Davis or Derozan either. You can't just highlight his mistakes.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:38 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Drafting Aldridge and keeping Hibbert instead of throwing him away for a washed up O'neal and this team would be light years ahead of where they are now...they may have even been able to keep Bosh. Who knows.
Bullshit. Aldridge a couple years ago was considered to be a disapointment and if you reacall that draft at all Bargnani was a good pick at the time. As for Hibbert, hindsight is all well and good, but not many if any at all, were whining at the time.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:43 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Without Colangelo we wouldn't have drafted Davis or Derozan either. You can't just highlight his mistakes.
Exactly. If that's the case nobody should want Pritchard anywhere near this team after picking Oden over Durant. Easy to say that now.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:44 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Without Colangelo we wouldn't have drafted Davis or Derozan either. You can't just highlight his mistakes.
Absolutely. I'm not suggesting that the guy has been a Babcock or anything. I also give him credit for managing to rid himself of his mistakes and actually get some value in return. However, the fact remains that this team won 22 games this year which is 5 less than in his first season here. At some point, Colangelo is going to have to start showing success on the court.
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:48 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Leafhater View Post
To quote the great Dennis Green (almost anyway)

"He is who we thought he was".

If Colangelo wasn't interested in a one dimensional offensive threat with range but completely lacking in defense and toughness, why exactly did he draft Andrea Bargnani over Lamarcus Aldridge?

Frankly, the kid gloves should be off with Colangelo too. It's all well and good to acknowledge your mistakes and try and correct them but at some point, people have to recognize that we're going in the wrong direction.

Drafting Aldridge and keeping Hibbert instead of throwing him away for a washed up O'neal and this team would be light years ahead of where they are now...they may have even been able to keep Bosh. Who knows.
Aldridge was too similar to Bosh.

Hibbert was drafted for Indiana. Who even knows who the Raps would've drafted for themselves.
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