Armstong: The kid gloves are finally off - Page 2
Old 04-25-2011, 03:35 PM   #21 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,494
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
i understand ur point but those guys never had an issue with effort whereas playing with no heart is the common denominator with barg and vince
Vince played with plenty of heart in his early days here..... the guy carried our team for a few years.... many forget how dominant he was.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 03:40 PM   #22 (permalink)
...

Senior Member
 
powerfulpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,487
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
if you think vince played with no heart in his first 4-5 years in the league, we weren't watching the same guy.
the argument was that Bargnani won't be able to change his ways because his lack of heart and how thats the same to vince how he didn't change once he got traded. so that has nothing to with the vince in his first 4-5 years.

and even so, didn't he admit that he just got by becuase of his talent?
powerfulpanda is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 03:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
Mean Muggin with his son

Swollen Member
 
b55bgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Rock AKA Newfoundland
Posts: 1,400
Representing:
Default

I dont expect Bargnani to become a rebound king. When amir, davis and Evans are healthy we out rebounded our opponents many a night.
I wanna see some ffort in Bargnani on help defense and get some blocks in there too. The guy is tall and has quick footwork for a 7 footer. Why he isnt a defensive threat is beyond me.
So as long as he can up the ante on his defensive side and show some more heart. Then i say keep him. Otherwise, trade him before his contract is up and we are left with nothing.
b55bgc is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 04:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,784
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerfulpanda View Post
the argument was that Bargnani won't be able to change his ways because his lack of heart and how thats the same to vince how he didn't change once he got traded. so that has nothing to with the vince in his first 4-5 years.
You got it right Panda. Vince and Bargnani were cut from the same cloth, no heart. A trade won't change Bargnani's ways. Will he suddenly get tough and and mix it up with the big boys in the paint and start contesting shots. Will he finally develop a brain and increase his defensive IQ. He is what he is. After 5 years in the league, this is what you are going to get.
RAPMAN is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 04:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
a starter

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 107
Representing:
Default

I've been supporting Bargnani the past couple years, but I'm starting to think he's a lost cause. What makes it more difficult is that he seems to be untradeable. I think we'll be stuck with him next year.
StartingBench is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 05:04 PM   #26 (permalink)
raptor jesus

Senior Member
 
Don Vito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,926
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StartingBench View Post
I've been supporting Bargnani the past couple years, but I'm starting to think he's a lost cause. What makes it more difficult is that he seems to be untradeable. I think we'll be stuck with him next year.
I don't believe for a second he isn't tradeable. If we can trade Turkoglu for Barbosa, we can trade anyone.
Don Vito is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 05:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,432
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
I don't believe for a second he isn't tradeable. If we can trade Turkoglu for Barbosa, we can trade anyone.
Agreed.

Bargs has talent... so he SHOULD draw some interest from other teams.

It's a real shame that we couldn't have swung a deal with ORL for Gortat and fillers... would have probably benefitted both teams.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 05:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,046
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
I have a feeling Bargnani will be here to start the season, and if he is still in idiot mode he will get traded before the deadline.
I think that's about as sure a thing as there is.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 05:52 PM   #29 (permalink)
a starter

Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 107
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
I don't believe for a second he isn't tradeable. If we can trade Turkoglu for Barbosa, we can trade anyone.
I hope you're right.

But the difference with Turkoglu was that everyone blamed Toronto. He was in the Finals a year before that and his stock was still fairly high. It was widely believed that he would still do well given the right circumstances.

I just don't feel confident that Bargnani has a similar reputation in the league.
StartingBench is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 06:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 105
Representing:
Default

he is one player i dont understand man, you have all these tools to be a GREAT player, Yes i said it GREAT but he is just has 0.00000000000 motivation its unbelievable...he is the fastest center in the league...if he plays PF he still top 5 in speed...lights out shooter...7 feet..decent build, i think he can work to get stronger legs like KG you need legs to play down low....but overall he has all the tools....PLEASE Bargs STOP BEING AN IDIOT ND FOCUS!
justizzllee is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 07:26 PM   #31 (permalink)
The Professional Scorer

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,032
Representing:
Default

I like how Jack is so honest about this and just says it as is. Puts so much pressure on Bargs himself now even seeing how coaches/managers/commentators are frustrated at him

A lot of teams would love to have Bargs on their team given the right situation. And I'm sure all of us would be happy if he doesn't fear away from contact and shy away from help d with an occasional block or so.
JDMtors is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 07:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
is all bout dat life

Can't knock the Hustle
 
Nites's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,660
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by b55bgc View Post
I dont expect Bargnani to become a rebound king. When amir, davis and Evans are healthy we out rebounded our opponents many a night.
I wanna see some ffort in Bargnani on help defense and get some blocks in there too. The guy is tall and has quick footwork for a 7 footer. Why he isnt a defensive threat is beyond me.
So as long as he can up the ante on his defensive side and show some more heart. Then i say keep him. Otherwise, trade him before his contract is up and we are left with nothing.
Isn't 5 seasons enough time for him to show us that he can play defense and show some more heart?
Nites is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 07:45 PM   #33 (permalink)
BOOBS

never too old.


 
INSIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: richmond hill
Posts: 11,552
Representing:
Default

i dont expect much from bargs...
ive given up on him.

he was supposed to come out this season guns a' blazin'... he was given the opportunity to be a star for this club, he had the reigns, he just had to play hard. instead he scored 20 a game and did nothing else. if thats his idea of taking charge and manning up, then i dont know what he's going to prove next year.

he's soft and will never be a legitimate big man. he better pray we land a rebounding /defensive C this offseason that can mask his defensive inabilities, or it'll be another long season.

we cannot go through another year with him as our starting C. i hope BC knows this..... in fact, im sure he does.
INSIDER is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 08:42 PM   #34 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,046
Representing:
Default

The one positive from bargnani's play this year... the referees should have forgotten he was a foul machine and won't ring him up just because of his number, if he does ever start playing D
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 08:49 PM   #35 (permalink)
"She always did enjoy a good squeeze"

Senior Member
 
Revolve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 774
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by INSIDER View Post
i dont expect much from bargs...
ive given up on him.

he was supposed to come out this season guns a' blazin'... he was given the opportunity to be a star for this club, he had the reigns, he just had to play hard. instead he scored 20 a game and did nothing else. if thats his idea of taking charge and manning up, then i dont know what he's going to prove next year.

he's soft and will never be a legitimate big man. he better pray we land a rebounding /defensive C this offseason that can mask his defensive inabilities, or it'll be another long season.

we cannot go through another year with him as our starting C. i hope BC knows this..... in fact, im sure he does.
+1 to all of this.
Revolve is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 08:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 75,875
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
The one positive from bargnani's play this year...
The only positive imo is that we know exactly what we have with him at this point. Until this season, some including me thought there was still hope he can be better at something other then offense. Clarity is a great thing.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 09:29 PM   #37 (permalink)
the boss

Senior Member
 
Aamir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 4,482
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
Agreed.

Bargs has talent... so he SHOULD draw some interest from other teams.

It's a real shame that we couldn't have swung a deal with ORL for Gortat and fillers... would have probably benefitted both teams.
He will forsure draw interest, but it's what we can get back in return. Not much. GM's know what he can't do now since we gave a lot of room to grow and a great opportunity. We would've been better off trading him atleast 2 offseasons ago when GM's could see potential in him to improve. I doubt we could get something really significant since other teams have seen him possibly reach his ceiling.
Aamir is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 09:36 PM   #38 (permalink)
#NorthernUprising

Next year...
 
js12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: T.O.
Posts: 5,556
Representing:
Default

I don't think there is a potential to reach. One only has potential if they really wish to achieve it.

Even though he could physically develop and improve his skill set, it won't get him anywhere. There is no desire to improve, to take over a game, to put a team on his back, etc.

Some young players with real potential: Stephen Curry, Kevin Love, John Wall, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose... They all have one thing in common. They have a terrific work ethic that allows them to improve their game and give them a killer mentality on the court. Andrea Bargnani is going to stay the way he is. After 5 years, I don't see any change in his mentality.
js12 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 09:45 PM   #39 (permalink)
baking the cookies of discontent.

Corner 3
 
finstock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,140
Representing:
Default

Jack playing the "city game!", as he calls it, journalism wise.
finstock is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 09:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
LX
synapse jelly

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,674
Representing:
Default

And there is a good chance that it goes beyond his mentality. bjjs made good points in the past regarding his inability to handle the speed and quickness of the NBA game. You can see that not only effecting his defense, but his offense as well. In Europe he had the quickness to get by everyone. Here he rushes, gets off-balance, travels. He's just operating in a different space on both ends of the floor than what he's been attuned to. Add that to his mental approach, and it's really hard to see how he gets noticeably better. He's like the baseball players that are really good, but can't quite handle reacting to a major league fastball.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24