Andrea Bargnani - Post Injury
Old 03-28-2012, 11:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Andrea Bargnani - Post Injury

Ok Guys.

I have been reading, on a great number of threads, a high volume of very anti-Bargnani comments. Typically this is the norm here, however this year it's particularly interesting.

Out of the Gate, most here were impressed, or at least satisfied with Andrea's progress. He was playing good ball, learning to play a little better on Defence, and basically dominating on offence. There were whispers of an allstar appearance....and not just here.

Then he got hurt.

You know, speaking from experience I can tell you, getting hurt sucks. It throws your whole life off balance. can't imagine what it must be like for a person in a sport like Basketball to suffer an extensive injury where they lose a significant number of years.

When Bargnani got hurt he he was dropped two levels. One was to base level, zero level, where you start, healthy, but have to then work into game shape, rhythm, speed, technique, etc....the second level, lower, injury. You are unhealthy, you cannot keep your fitness at peak level. When you recover what you do is work your ass off for 6 weeks, but when you do, it isn't to get back two levels, you only get back to one before you're cleared to play. You have another bunch of weeks where you have to get back to the peak you were at when the injury happened.

I had my third Hip surgery in August. I'm STILL not back to even where I was before. Sure I can do a lot of things, I can skate, and ride my bike, and generally look ok, but it's not quite there. It wont be for at leas another 6 months. Now my injury might have been more extensive, but the same pattern applies.

Andrea Bargnani carried this team before his injury, and injury that whether people here want to believe it or not, was actually pretty bad. He got back to base level and is now playing catch up. It isn't easy, and it won't happen over night.

So i guess my question is this, why are people so quick to jump on him? Are we all really this ridiculously pathetic? Are we this predictable and silly?
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:55 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Why are people so quick to jump on him? Well 6yrs of Andrea Bargnani and his inconsistent play and at times effort and imo it would be strange not to get on him to some degree. And a 13 game stretch shouldn't have us believe he had all of a sudden become a beast. People were calling for him to be an all-star 10 games into the season. Which at the time I thought was insane. I've seen enough of Bargnani over the years to know it'll take a lot more than a 3 week stretch to have me confident in his game long term. I still think it's a little early to completely throw him under the bus after missing 6 weeks with a pretty bad injury, but for the rest of the season I'm curious to see if he can get back to the level he was showing in january.

Last edited by jeffb; 03-28-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree, it's not as much that he's bad, but my fear is that Bargnani has looked great for 3 week stretches manu times before

It's hard not to be a littl skeptical now. Luckily, there's still time for hm to prove he's a changed player. I don't care about his offense these next 15 games, i don't evencare about rebounding numbers. But i do want to see effort and results defensively. We know he's an excellent offensive player. We have to see proof he can be more than that.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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We should just trade Bargnani, I'm pretty sure everyone is sick of waiting all the time.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It funny how some people call Derozan shit, but want to give Bargnani more time and patience after 6 years in the league. If Bargnani is your best player on year team, your a top 5 lottery every year. If Bargnani is still the best player after this draft and free agency, we will be in the same boat next year.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RAPMAN View Post
It funny how some people call Derozan shit, but want to give Bargnani more time and patience after 6 years in the league. If Bargnani is your best player on year team, your a top 5 lottery every year. If Bargnani is still the best player after this draft and free agency, we will be in the same boat next year.
the only thing Derozan has suffered up until now is a poor shopping at the Dunk contest...twice, after a few months of some pretty decent self promotion.

Not really the same thing.

In fact, why are people unable to discuss a player without referencing another.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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People try to pin everything on single issues.

What exactly are these people waiting for? Bargnani to average 30 ppg? For him to miraculously lead his team deep into the playoffs?

Maybe they want stability and consistency? How can any one player show consistency when the entire team can't do it night to night?

If that's the case, let em wait. Show me a champion in the last 25 years that wasn't built as a TEAM. Teams only gonna be as good as it's weakest link, and we just happen to have a shitload of weak links.

I still think that had this guy been playing with any semblance of a defensive C, nobody would even bring up this kids defense. Ever.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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we've seen good stretches from him many times before. the biggest knock on him is that we haven't seen a good full season from him EVER. its always either when his offense is going he's being lazy on defense. when he's giving effort on defense he gets injured. etc etc. it never seems like he was able play at an above average across all facets on his game. now in his 7th season and going on his 8th. he is a vet now thats suppose to be in the prime of his career. and the term potential doesn't not associate with a vet.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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the blazers are fielding calls on alderidge and are ready to blow it up for another rebuild and we're here holding on to bargnani???
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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he's 26 no?

Um, he has a bout 10 years of good ball ahead of him
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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the blazers are fielding calls on alderidge and are ready to blow it up for another rebuild and we're here holding on to bargnani???
They are??
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The problem for me with Bargnani is not his skill set or his ability - quite frankly, I think he has all-star ability at his position. It is the effort that bothers me. Being hurt, I expected him to be dreadful offensively coming back and a step slow defensively. He has indeed been those things, and that's fine. I can wait for him to get back in shape.

But I also expected to see him bring the same intensity and effort that appeared for 13 games earlier this season. And he hasn't. And too much of his career has been lacking that intensity.

Now, I think he brings that intensity when he wants to. The problem is when he wants to. It is pretty clear that when he went down with injury for the second time, he realized this season is over. And he's a smart guy - he knows this team is not making the playoffs, and as much as we hate it in out athletes, he knows that wins only hurt the team from here on in. With that knowledge, I can't blame the guy for not giving his all.

The caliper test that he passed with record-breaking flying colours showed us one thing - Bargnani is not bothered by outside influences. So if he thinks his team is competing and is worth playing for, he can give his all (the beginning of this year being a good example) - even if the team is projected to finish dead last. He doesn't care about projections. But the inverse is true - once Bargnani figures his team is out of a game, or done for the season, even a motivational coach like Casey can't get him fired up.

That's what I think we're seeing here. Bargnani knows the season is over, and can't get himself up for the games, and due to his impenetrable personality, neither can anyone else. And that's a problem for a team like Toronto. If Bargnani played on a team that was competing for a championship, I imagine he would bring that effort every game, and might well challenge for an all-star spot. But the problem for TO is we need Bargnani to take us to that level - not the other way around. And unfortunately for everyone involved, it seems like it then comes down to whether Bargnani can find a way to motivate himself. And thus far, I just haven't seen that.

Now, this issue is tricky for the team. If you trade him away, both you and the other GM will expect him to go on and do much better than he did here, assuming he is being traded into an established winning atmosphere. So that could net you a decent return in a trade - especially considering that we just might never get enough value out of Bargnani as a player. But there will always be the "what might have been" - maybe if he didn't get injured this year, the team stays in contention for the playoffs and Bargnani keeps killing it. Maybe if we keep him until next year, the team is improved enough that he kills it then as well. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Story of Bargnani's Raptor career.

I guess for me, it comes down to what I would rather gamble on - getting a good return for Bargnani versus getting good effort out of Bargnani. And for me, the trade is a safer bet. Now, I'm not gung-ho on getting him out of here at all costs (there is still a chance he pays off), but of the two options, I do prefer the trade, given there's a viable option out there.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
So nobody except Jeff so far has been able to formulate a sensible and relevant reply
It must have pained you to type that.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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As dan said, he has been lacking effort and passion once again. It's noticeable. Although I disagree that the reason for it is his superior intelligence and glorious personality.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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There is no need to think about trading Bargs for now. I believe he will play the way he suppose to next year.. I agree with DanH that he might not be giving 100% because he knows that the team doesn't really need to win now.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think it's quite obvious. What we saw in 13 games was the Bargs we've all been waiting for. The fans will accept nothing less than the level of effort we saw then, even if his skills are still rounding into from as his health comes back. He's allowed to miss shots and have his minutes limited. He is not allowed to float around the court like we've seen for far too long.

Watch him exclusively as much as you can next game and tell me that's a man who is giving his all out there.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You take 6 weeks off from the gym and go back trying to lift the maxes you lifted before. It ain't happening.

Bit more time guys.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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You really can't compare that stretch of 13 games to other stretches in previous seasons. During that stretch he was doing "EVERYTHING" and was a completely changed player, the guy was a leader.

Remember when he returned in Pheonix and Utah? The team just became so much more confident.

I really hope he picks it up, but at the same time part of me realizes were better off (tanking) if he doesnt go into beast mode again.

I hope Casey's benching sends a message to Bargn though.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You really can't compare that stretch of 13 games to other stretches in previous seasons. During that stretch he was doing "EVERYTHING" and was a completely changed player, the guy was a leader.
Maybe so, but it was 13 games two months ago. The rest of the season should be a decent gauge on whether or not he can return to some semblance of that player and sustain it when games mean nothing at all.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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He's got ten years of playing ball ahead of him. Too bad that he won't bother playing ball, meaning do what a basketball player needs to do to compete and win, unless he's 100 percent healthy. It's a pattern, and it sucks.
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