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-   -   Is Andrea Bargnani finally living up to his billing as the No. 1 pick? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/andrea-bargnani-finally-living-up-his-billing-no-1-pick-21862.html)

powerfulpanda 01-11-2012 04:54 PM

Is Andrea Bargnani finally living up to his billing as the No. 1 pick?
 
Quote:

James Ham, Cowbell Kingdom: If the 2006 NBA draft were done all over again, LaMarcus Aldridge would be the clear overall first pick. Bargnani can score, but that's about it. He is a 7-footer who rebounds like a small forward, plays suspect defense and wills his team to be a sub-.500 club; not exactly first overall pick material.

Mark Haubner, The Painted Area: In the context of the 2006 draft, yes. Bargnani now stands with LaMarcus Aldridge and Rajon Rondo as the three All-Star-caliber players in that class. Most stunning is that the Raptors have allowed fewer points per possession with Bargs on the floor than off. Andrea has been one of the league's absolute worst by that metric for three straight seasons.

Chris Palmer, ESPN The Magazine: AB is playing really well, pumping in a career-best 23.7 ppg. I'd say if he makes a couple more strides on the defensive end, he lives up to the No. 1 pick, as far as the stat sheet goes. But No. 1 overall picks are supposed to turn a franchise around completely, and he hasn't done that.

Michael Pina, Red94: Bargnani is playing fantastic basketball right now, but he's no franchise pillar. A building block, yes, but No. 1 overall picks are supposed to serve as the foundation for teamwide renovation projects. Unless Toronto is able to pair him with one (or two?) certified stars, Bargnani and his lack of overall ability will prevent Toronto from venturing toward anything meaningful.

Timothy Varner, 48 Minutes Of Hell: Give Bargnani credit for a strong start, but he still doesn't look like a player around whom the Raptors can build their franchise. Until Bargs shows more than a little scoring ability, I continue to see him as a quality backup on a good team.
NBA -- Who is Most Improved Player (so far)? - ESPN

jeffb 01-11-2012 05:04 PM

Quote:

Until Bargs shows more than a little scoring ability, I continue to see him as a quality backup on a good team.
^ WTF?

Overall, imo he's not a franchise player or a number 1 on a very good to contending team. The problem is, neither is Derozan or anyone else on this team. BC is going to have to get a number one option hopefully at the SF position in then offseason because he won't get a SF in the draft that can come in and be a number one guy right away.

If our pecking order could look something like this we're going in the right direction, at least offensively.

1. SF?
2. Bargs
3. Derozan

halphbreedballer 01-11-2012 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598713)
^ WTF?

Overall, imo he's not a franchise player or a number 1 on a very good to contending team. The problem is, neither is Derozan or anyone else on this team. BC is going to have to get a number one option hopefully at the SF position in then offseason because he won't get a SF in the draft that can come in and be a number one guy right away.

If our pecking order could look something like this we're going in the right direction, at least offensively.

1. SF?
2. Bargs
3. Derozan

I agree with you Jeffb!

But I think it will be at the PG or SF spot & lets not forget about JV?

1.SF/PG?
2.AB
3.DD
4.JV(atleast for the first few years)
5.Amir/Jose off the bench
(Ed Davis & Bayless are on the outside looking in at the moment)

jeffb 01-11-2012 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halphbreedballer (Post 598714)
I agree with you Jeffb!

But I think it will be at the PG or SF spot & lets not forget about JV?

1.SF/PG?
2.AB
3.DD
4.JV(atleast for the first few years)
5.Amir/Jose off the bench
(Ed Davis & Bayless are on the outside looking in at the moment)


JV won't be a franchise player, at least i hope not. How many teams win a championship with the star being a Center? This day in age you need athletic dynamic play from the 1-2-3 spots, especially the 2-3 spots. And considering JV is so young i don't expect him to be great his first year or two. Usually you need your SG or SF to be the man, since DD isn't number 1 material i really hope a bold move is made to bring that number 1 guy in either at SF or PG.

halphbreedballer 01-11-2012 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598716)
JV won't be a franchise player, at least i hope not. How many teams win a championship with the star being a Center? This day in age you need athletic dynamic play from the 1-2-3 spots, especially the 2-3 spots. And considering JV is so young i don't expect him to be great his first year or two.

Thats why I put him in the 4th spot...

jeffb 01-11-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halphbreedballer (Post 598718)
Thats why I put him in the 4th spot...

Yeah, i like that order of things.

ha123 01-11-2012 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598713)
^ WTF?

Overall, imo he's not a franchise player or a number 1 on a very good to contending team. The problem is, neither is Derozan or anyone else on this team. BC is going to have to get a number one option hopefully at the SF position in then offseason because he won't get a SF in the draft that can come in and be a number one guy right away.

If our pecking order could look something like this we're going in the right direction, at least offensively.

1. SF?
2. Bargs
3. Derozan

Austin Rivers.

Snooch 01-11-2012 05:55 PM

no one from that draft is a franchise talent.

put rondo on this team instead of bargs and we worse.

Aldridge about the same.

DDUnreal 01-11-2012 05:58 PM

Derozan is not a third option

AR1815 01-11-2012 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598716)
JV won't be a franchise player, at least i hope not. How many teams win a championship with the star being a Center? This day in age you need athletic dynamic play from the 1-2-3 spots, especially the 2-3 spots.

The past decade or so there have been many more talented swingmen than centers, but I think that having a superstar/franchise player at any position can lead to a championship. Guys like Shaq, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, and David Robinson carried their teams not so long ago. They had great overall teams, but it was really the play of the big men that got them to win. I think Shaq in Miami was instrumental to them winning the championship, as he was in LA; the Spurs won because of Robinson/Duncan; the Mavs last year were carried by Dirk - not a center, but he was the best big man in the playoffs. Even a guy like Dwight, who has almost no offensive game besides putbacks and dunks, was able to get his team to the finals.

jeffb 01-11-2012 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR1815 (Post 598740)
The past decade or so there have been many more talented swingmen than centers, but I think that having a superstar/franchise player at any position can lead to a championship. Guys like Shaq, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, and David Robinson carried their teams not so long ago. They had great overall teams, but it was really the play of the big men that got them to win. I think Shaq in Miami was instrumental to them winning the championship, as he was in LA; the Spurs won because of Robinson/Duncan; the Mavs last year were carried by Dirk - not a center, but he was the best big man in the playoffs. Even a guy like Dwight, who has almost no offensive game besides putbacks and dunks, was able to get his team to the finals.

I agree, but i was talking more about the way the league is now. And was Shaq the #1 guy in Miami? He put them over the top obviously and was i guess a 1a.

Superjudge 01-11-2012 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snooch (Post 598729)
no one from that draft is a franchise talent.

put rondo on this team instead of bargs and we worse.

Aldridge about the same.

Bingo.

Thinks fuck chops are making it sound like MVP can't miss studs are in every draft. Guys like lebron or Kobe or Shaq.

Its a fucking stupid debate. Maybe Aldridg is better, thats the only fucking argument.... I'll pretend I'm one of them:

Superjudge, Raptors Forum: The 2006 Draft will always be remembered for two things, Rajon Rondo slipping through 20 sets of fingers, and Brandon Roy being the one that could have been. So where does that leave BArgnani as far as living up to his #1 over all billing, well, it leaves him right there, or, if we want to be honest, likely second to Lamarcus aldridge. Since it was a coin toss between the two I'd say he's done just fine.

Carlito 01-11-2012 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 598747)
Bingo.

Thinks fuck chops are making it sound like MVP can't miss studs are in every draft. Guys like lebron or Kobe or Shaq.

Its a fucking stupid debate. Maybe Aldridg is better, thats the only fucking argument.... I'll pretend I'm one of them:

Superjudge, Raptors Forum: The 2006 Draft will always be remembered for two things, Rajon Rondo slipping through 20 sets of fingers, and Brandon Roy being the one that could have been. So where does that leave BArgnani as far as living up to his #1 over all billing, well, it leaves him right there, or, if we want to be honest, likely second to Lamarcus aldridge. Since it was a coin toss between the two I'd say he's done just fine.


Spot on ...

RaptorsFan4Life 01-11-2012 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snooch (Post 598729)
no one from that draft is a franchise talent.

put rondo on this team instead of bargs and we worse.

Aldridge about the same.

Rudy Gay?

ollyaaa 01-11-2012 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598716)
JV won't be a franchise player, at least i hope not. How many teams win a championship with the star being a Center? This day in age you need athletic dynamic play from the 1-2-3 spots, especially the 2-3 spots.

Fair do's Jeff, I don't usually post I'm a lurker but you really do spout a lot of nonsense.

Superjudge 01-11-2012 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaptorsFan4Life (Post 598757)
Rudy Gay?

ya him too...same boat.

jeffb 01-11-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollyaaa (Post 598764)
Fair do's Jeff, I don't usually post I'm a lurker but you really do spout a lot of nonsense.

Whatever you say junior. Name me one of the top contending teams right now that has a Center as their main player.

ollyaaa 01-11-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR1815 (Post 598740)
The past decade or so there have been many more talented swingmen than centers, but I think that having a superstar/franchise player at any position can lead to a championship. Guys like Shaq, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, and David Robinson carried their teams not so long ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598744)
I agree, but i was talking more about the way the league is now.

So the league has changed so significantly in the last few years that none of these players would make their teams contenders?

jeffb 01-11-2012 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollyaaa (Post 598776)
So the league has changed so significantly in the last few years that none of these players would make their teams contenders?

i never said they wouldn't. All i'm saying and was saying is that Centers/PF as franchise players don't usually work. Dominant bigs make great secondary stars, but most contenders have the SG-SF spots as their main franchise player other than Dallas of course. Bosh should have never been our "franchise player", nor should Bargnani be our franchise player and i doubt Val will be that franchise player. IMO our franchise player when we hope to contend isn't here yet.

ollyaaa 01-11-2012 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598716)
Usually you need your SG or SF to be the man, since DD isn't number 1 material i really hope a bold move is made to bring that number 1 guy in either at SF or PG.

Why do you want a number 1 PG after JUST STATING you need a SG or SF to be the man?! Typo surely?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 598780)
i never said they wouldn't. All i'm saying and was saying is that Centers/PF as franchise players don't usually work. Dominant bigs make great secondary stars, but most contenders have the SG-SF spots as their main franchise player other than Dallas of course. Bosh should have never been our "franchise player", nor should Bargnani be our franchise player and i doubt Val will be that franchise player. IMO our franchise player when we hope to contend isn't here yet.

Fair enough. You're obviously a guy who is into his blueprints for success. Personally I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference which position your star player plays. That's what makes basketball one of the most dynamic sports to watch IMO. To be honest, I'd rather have MOST of the scoring through what is (traditionally) the highest FG% yeilding position.


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