Is Andrea Bargnani finally living up to his billing as the No. 1 pick? - Page 2

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Old 01-11-2012, 07:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Whatever you say junior. Name me one of the top contending teams right now that has a Center as their main player.
PS - Dwight Howard??

To me, he is blatently the overall MVP in the NBA because he has some of attributes that are THE HARDEST TO COME BY

1) Size.

2) Durability.

3) Atheleticism.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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PS - Dwight Howard??

To me, he is blatently the overall MVP in the NBA because he has some of attributes that are THE HARDEST TO COME BY

1) Size.

2) Durability.

3) Atheleticism.
You think Orlando is a contender?

Must be why Dwight wants out.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Fair do's Jeff, I don't usually post I'm a lurker but you really do spout a lot of nonsense.
PS - I apologise, that insult was uncalled for.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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PS - I apologise, that insult was uncalled for.
No big deal. I've been told worse here.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You think Orlando is a contender?

Must be why Dwight wants out.
Well, technically of course they are contenders, they've won twice the number they've lost and are currently 6th in the East....

Out of interest, do you believe they'd improve if they traded Dwight for Wade OR Lebron and a big like Joel?
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Well, technically of course they are contenders, they've won twice the number they've lost and are currently 6th in the East....

Out of interest, do you believe they'd improve if they traded Dwight for Wade OR Lebron and a big like Joel?
No they wouldn't. You still need a dominant big and i never said otherwise. Bosh + Wade though is better than Howard and what they have now.

Wade- Franchise player and #1 option
Bosh- Solid #2
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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So Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, were not franchise players? I'd say to think otherwise is spouting something.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, were not franchise players? I'd say to think otherwise is spouting something.
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I agree, but i was talking more about the way the league is now.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:51 PM   #29 (permalink)
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i never said they wouldn't. All i'm saying and was saying is that Centers/PF as franchise players don't usually work. Dominant bigs make great secondary stars, but most contenders have the SG-SF spots as their main franchise player other than Dallas of course. Bosh should have never been our "franchise player", nor should Bargnani be our franchise player and i doubt Val will be that franchise player. IMO our franchise player when we hope to contend isn't here yet.
Just because most contenders have franchise SG-SF spots doesn't mean we have to. If we get a center who proves he can lead our team then whats wrong with that?
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:14 AM   #30 (permalink)
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All i'm saying and was saying is that Centers/PF as franchise players don't usually work. Dominant bigs make great secondary stars, but most contenders have the SG-SF spots as their main franchise player other than Dallas of course.
I think that they haven't worked in the last ~five years because there have been so few really dominant big men, and so many great backcourt players. I don't think it's a matter of a position being more suited for carrying a team - you can make arguments for small forwards/guards (variety of ways to score, likely to draw bigger ticket sales with their play, can hit clutch free throws, etc) and big men (take higher-percentage shots, more likely to complete an and-1, able to tip in last second shots, etc). In the past five years prospects like Greg Oden and Yao were slowed down by injuries. Had they been healthy, both teams would be serious contenders and would have made for some great match-ups with Dwight.

And while I agree that neither Bosh nor Bargs are fundamental franchise players, I think it's due to them being not good enough, more than their position. Whether JV is a franchise player remains to be seen, but if he is, I'd be more than happy to build around him - in fact (as I stated), I think it would give us an advantage over a team with a backcourt star.

Regarding Bargs and the No. 1 pick - he's one of two/three best players in a weak draft. If he puts the same effort on the defensive end from now on as we've seen thus far, he will likely be the best player. Would he be a justifiable No. 1 in other drafts, though? Probably not.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:17 AM   #31 (permalink)
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These days to win an NBA championship you need a sweet-shooting, non-physical European PF. Just ask Mark Cuban.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:21 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I don't see a legit franchise player ever coming from a draft again (I mean dwyane wade, lebron james, kobe caliber players).

Soon the league is going to be filled with a lot of good players and less stars. Teams are going to be more like philly, indiana, portland etc. who have no legit franchise player but are good teams.

Therefore, I don't mind Andrea Bargnani being our first or second option on offence at all and I believe he has lived up to his expectations.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I don't see a legit franchise player ever coming from a draft again (I mean dwyane wade, lebron james, kobe caliber players).

Soon the league is going to be filled with a lot of good players and less stars. Teams are going to be more like philly, indiana, portland etc. who have no legit franchise player but are good teams.

Therefore, I don't mind Andrea Bargnani being our first or second option on offence at all and I believe he has lived up to his expectations.
i don't see how that is possible. there's always gonna be franchise players. since bargnani's draft there's been rose, durant, griffin, it not for injuries oden, jury's still out on wall and roy was a legit franchise sg.
i would say 1 franchise guy per draft on average, but just got unlucky that we got the first pick in a weak draft.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:24 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Whatever you say junior. Name me one of the top contending teams right now that has a Center as their main player.
Orlando was for the past 3 years, not this year though. (never mind I'm late in this conversation)

Last edited by halphbreedballer; 01-12-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:27 PM   #35 (permalink)
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2006 draft was one of the weakest in recent memory - of course it would be, Raps held the first overall pick, eh?

Roy was know to be flawed health-wise and the hindsight has proven that. Aldridge was viewed as equal to Bosh, who was still considered a centerpiece at the time. So, it was really between Andrea and Gay and I don't see how anyone can maintain we've picked the wrong guy, at least so far.

And yes, none of the players from that draft will ever be considered a franchise player.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:40 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Who cares if he is a franchise player. Really!!!
He is a great player and one of the best options they had at the time.
Looking back, they made a very wise decision.

Why is this topic beaten to death?
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:09 PM   #37 (permalink)
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2006 draft was one of the weakest in recent memory - of course it would be, Raps held the first overall pick, eh?

Roy was know to be flawed health-wise and the hindsight has proven that. Aldridge was viewed as equal to Bosh, who was still considered a centerpiece at the time. So, it was really between Andrea and Gay and I don't see how anyone can maintain we've picked the wrong guy, at least so far.

And yes, none of the players from that draft will ever be considered a franchise player.
Not sure about that. Based on the fact that we already had Bosh I still think that it would have been a better play to go for a wing player rather than another shooting big. Heck, if JV was in that draft I could have got behind that since his skills seem to COMPLIMENT a player like Bosh rather than duplicate them.

A lot of problems came from Bargs being billed as a C... which he's clearly not.
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:13 PM   #38 (permalink)
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He is a great player
But he's soft (!!1!)

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Old 01-12-2012, 05:37 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Not sure about that. Based on the fact that we already had Bosh I still think that it would have been a better play to go for a wing player rather than another shooting big. Heck, if JV was in that draft I could have got behind that since his skills seem to COMPLIMENT a player like Bosh rather than duplicate them.

A lot of problems came from Bargs being billed as a C... which he's clearly not.
The best player from the draft is LA. Going after anyone else was a stretch... a wing? Rudy Gay went 8th? Why? He was basically Gerald Green... except he fulfilled his potential.
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:32 PM   #40 (permalink)
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when you draft #1 you get the most talented player on paper period
you don't go for position, you don't go for players who are able to help now and you DEFINITELY don't go for players with massive red-flags of any kind (injuries, character etc).

so really it was a matter of bargnani, aldridge or thomas. And LA is the best of the bunch right now, but it's so hard to compare, especially after this season. For one, Bargnani was less developed than aldridge. He was also coming into a whole new system/country/language. He also had to play out of position for most of his first years. He also had to deal with incompetent coaching from day one.

One thing is certain, Bargnani CAN play like the best player in that draft. Whether he will do it or now (from now on at least), it's up in the air.
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