Amico: League-wide interest in DD - Page 9
Old 10-29-2013, 01:09 PM   #161 (permalink)
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There seems to be a lot of criticisms of Rudy on here, but what his size, length and athleticism bring on the defensive end, even if lazy, needs to be taken into consideration. He's one of the few guys we have that can guard somebody like Lebron, Melo, Durant... and I feel like he has the ability to elevate his game at times despite being lazy at times. Conversely, DD doesn't seem to have that extra level.... so the gap may be narrowing, but I feel like Rudy could bring it to another level simply given his more elite physical tools. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe the 19M takes away from that too much as well.
no question, I've said it earlier he could be the 3rd best SF in the game (actually said 2nd, forgetting about durant). The question is will he be even close to that, it takes a lot of hard work to get the conditioning to that point and then there's discipline and focus and consistency and desire to win - all doable, but not easy (or else everybody would do it since those don't require any special skills or talent).
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:35 PM   #162 (permalink)
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with a block a game, and a significant jump in 3%..... it's not a small jump... but doable.

My question is, does having a guy capable of guarding any SF make a difference in value or am I overvaluing that aspect?
If he is capable - why doesn't he do it? That sounds to me like perceived potential. Maybe he should be traded if that perceived potential has value around the league.

Rudy has a lot to prove if he wants Ujiri to build around him. Ujiri, Lieweke are building around winning character, not talent, and Rudy has a lot of work to do in that regard. You can make 10 talented plays, but if you decide to sulk after missing a shot and hand the other team a freebie on the other end, you're a losing basketball player. Rudy makes losing basketball plays - he actually has a far bigger challenge then Demar in terms of improvement because all Demar has to do is keep getting better at the fundamentals; like shooting a basketball, and dribbling. Rudy has to try and change his own instinct and personality.

That all being said, I think Rudy complements Demar well and if he can learn to do more of the small things on the court I could see him being a nice complementary piece. Even while coasting Rudy is a top 15-30SF in the league.

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Old 10-29-2013, 01:39 PM   #163 (permalink)
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If he is capable - why doesn't he do it? That sounds to me like perceived potential. Maybe he should be traded if that perceived potential has value around the league.
Maybe.... but he has shown some of that potential before too.
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:51 PM   #164 (permalink)
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with a block a game, and a significant jump in 3%..... it's not a small jump... but doable.

My question is, does having a guy capable of guarding any SF make a difference in value or am I overvaluing that aspect?
you're not overvaluing it. we seriously struggled for years after the horrible garba injury in defending big athletic agile SF's but since gay came in we gave those teams much more of a challenge on that end
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:54 PM   #165 (permalink)
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you're not overvaluing it. we seriously struggled for years after the horrible garba injury in defending big athletic agile SF's but since gay came in we gave those teams much more of a challenge on that end
well that's my concern about jettisoning Gay instead of DD.... given that most view the two as too similar to really be good enough to build around.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:05 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Gay's best season = 20/6/2 + 1.4 stls

DD's season last year = 18/4/2 + 0.9 stls


If DD continues to trend upwards he could match Gay as early as this season.
No advanced stats or %s. Awesome
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:46 PM   #167 (permalink)
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well that's my concern about jettisoning Gay instead of DD.... given that most view the two as too similar to really be good enough to build around.
not making this comparison in talent, but in style. jordan and pippen? they worked
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:18 PM   #168 (permalink)
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No advanced stats or %s. Awesome
Here's an advanced stat for you: Gay is 27, DeRozan is 24. I'd rather keep both at the moment but the one with the most upside right now I'd say is DeMar.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:23 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Here's an advanced stat for you: Gay is 27, DeRozan is 24. I'd rather keep both at the moment but the one with the most upside right now I'd say is DeMar.
-1000000

No s**t Sherlock - given the age. Just saying how I love it when just per game stats are shown without any advanced stats or stats when the player is on the floor.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:25 PM   #170 (permalink)
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not making this comparison in talent, but in style. jordan and pippen? they worked
they were both stud defenders and scorers.... derozan and gay don't stand above their peers in any categories except for points.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:52 PM   #171 (permalink)
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not making this comparison in talent, but in style. jordan and pippen? they worked
When you have two guys that are elite at nearly everything it will almost surely work. DeMar and Rudy? Not the best at anything in particular really.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:19 PM   #172 (permalink)
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not making this comparison in talent, but in style. jordan and pippen? they worked
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
they were both stud defenders and scorers.... derozan and gay don't stand above their peers in any categories except for points.
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When you have two guys that are elite at nearly everything it will almost surely work. DeMar and Rudy? Not the best at anything in particular really.
pzabby - what carp and KoolAid said. Not to mention the ballhandling and playmaking ability which in fairness KoolAid does mention.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:29 PM   #173 (permalink)
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with a block a game, and a significant jump in 3%..... it's not a small jump... but doable.

My question is, does having a guy capable of guarding any SF make a difference in value or am I overvaluing that aspect?
You are not. And a scoring well rounded SF is tougher to find that a scoring well rounded SG. Not 10 million tougher, just tougher to find.

That said Gay either plays like a top 5 SF that he's paid to be or he's trade bait. just not sure why people think a guy that has been dominant can't be again, while a guy that never has is so close. Everyone must be feel its a pattern after Bargnani couldn't come close again here.

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Old 10-30-2013, 01:09 AM   #174 (permalink)
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You are not. And a scoring well rounded SF is tougher to find that a scoring well rounded SG. Not 10 million tougher, just tougher to find.

That said Gay either plays like a top 5 SF that he's paid to be or he's trade bait. just not sure why people think a guy that has been dominant can't be again, while a guy that never has is so close. Everyone must be feel its a pattern after Bargnani couldn't come close again here.
Well said.

Also, am I the only one who finds it funny that the 3 most important, best overall, and most efficient players in the starting 5 (Amir, KL and JV) are paid significantly less than RG and DD?
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:52 AM   #175 (permalink)
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Again, you mean not best, but best liked. By you.
These three are not the top players in opposition scouting report. Maybe KL is, but he's is in contract year and is aiming to double his salary with next contract.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:50 AM   #176 (permalink)
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Well said.

Also, am I the only one who finds it funny that the 3 most important, best overall, and most efficient players in the starting 5 (Amir, KL and JV) are paid significantly less than RG and DD?
I guess you are, because JV is on his rookie contract.. Amir is on his old contract, that was considered to be too big not too long ago. And Lowry is due for a raise.
Are you also surprised that Irving isn't paid close to max?
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:19 AM   #177 (permalink)
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Again, you mean not best, but best liked. By you.
These three are not the top players in opposition scouting report. Maybe KL is, but he's is in contract year and is aiming to double his salary with next contract.
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No actually not best liked by me. On the other board I'm on it's practically universally agreed that those 3 are the best players on the roster. RG and DD are the 2 main scorers on the team, doesn't mean they're the best players on the team. Advanced stats, while on the floor stats, you know those actually reveal a few things. Also not to mention the salary. And yes, that's why he might be dealt.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:21 AM   #178 (permalink)
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I guess you are, because JV is on his rookie contract.. Amir is on his old contract, that was considered to be too big not too long ago. And Lowry is due for a raise.
Are you also surprised that Irving isn't paid close to max?
3 better players, 2 if we take into consideration JV's contract make a little over what one of the other players. Just saying is all. And given what they provide to the team...
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:43 AM   #179 (permalink)
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3 better players, 2 if we take into consideration JV's contract make a little over what one of the other players. Just saying is all. And given what they provide to the team...
Most valuable because of potential and contract is pretty different than "Best". JV is not currently a better player than Rudy Gay. I think that might be what's going to confuse people here.
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