Americans will lose - Page 6
Old 08-26-2008, 09:58 AM   #101 (permalink)
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They had by far the worst defensive game i have seen them play since the Olympic qualifying to friendlies in vegas, i mean literally it was so bad it was shameful, yet they still won and never trailed for more then the entire 2nd half of the game. Spain played very, very well, and players you dont expect to step up huge like Narvarro had big games. But seriously, it was by far the worst defensive game in years for them and they still won and at clutch time took a small lead into an over 10 point lead.
Have you watched Euro basketball and/or the Spanish national team play before? Navarro has been one of the best players in Europe and an offensive force for Spain for years. Don't let the fact that he was brought off the bench deceive you - he is older now, but he is still a great offensive player and, after having a sub-par tournament, he was due for a big game. Fernandez and Gasol did as expected, as would Calderon, had he played.

You guys don't seem to even find it in yourselves to do what American players have done in their interviews - give credit to Spanish offence.

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Old 08-26-2008, 11:07 AM   #102 (permalink)
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like Mike more or less pointed, Navarro is the clutches player in the spanish team, and a top 5 best european player in the last 10 years.
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:47 PM   #103 (permalink)
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like Mike more or less pointed, Navarro is the clutches player in the spanish team, and a top 5 best european player in the last 10 years.
Which would make him what the backup? Or if he was American the backup of the backups backup? Make him head back to europe because in the NBA he isnt a top 5 in anything? That just shows the difference in talent between USA and europe, a top 5 european player couldnt sniff the USA starting lineup, but thanks for making the arguement for me He did play very well tho.

I know it hurts Raptors fans, but Jose wont be the starting PG for Spain much longer, dont you agree? He played pretty badly all tourny so to say he would have made them win in laughable to me, you guys should be proud you hung around in the game, it was a great effort and a fun game to watch!

I said Spain played really well offensively, but Team USA did by far have their worst defensive effort in years, and still held the lead for the entire game and closed it out in the clutch moments.
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:59 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Which would make him what the backup? Or if he was American the backup of the backups backup? Make him head back to europe because in the NBA he isnt a top 5 in anything? That just shows the difference in talent between USA and europe, a top 5 european player couldnt sniff the USA starting lineup, but thanks for making the arguement for me He did play very well tho.
I know it hurts Raptors fans, but Jose wont be the starting PG for Spain much longer, dont you agree? He played pretty badly all tourny so to say he would have made them win in laughable to me, you guys should be proud you hung around in the game, it was a great effort and a fun game to watch!

I said Spain played really well offensively, but Team USA did by far have their worst defensive effort in years, and still held the lead for the entire game and closed it out in the clutch moments.

So many things wrong but Dirk Nowitzki would crack the line up easily.
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:02 PM   #105 (permalink)
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So many things wrong but Dirk Nowitzki would crack the line up easily.
I was referring to you saying Narvarro was/is a top 5 european player. Dirk has proven his worth in the NBA so yes, he could come off the bench (yes, he WOULDNT start for Team USA). So there you go. You got me. BTW how did Dirk do against Team USA again?
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:07 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Spain played very, very well, and players you dont expect to step up huge like Narvarro had big games
Navarros comments were an answer to this. If you posted something ignorant dont try distract us from it. Calde will start for years as long as he is not tired from the NBA season. He is the most important piece of the team.
The US is the better team thats clear, but their team offense still sucks and they will always live and die through individual talent. They struggle against zone defense and the day those three pointers dont go in, refs start calling Howard for fouling constantly (much like in the NBA) and the 1231451 times the US travels, it wont be the same way.
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:09 PM   #107 (permalink)
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if if if if if if if.

lotsa if's.

two can play that game.
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:41 PM   #108 (permalink)
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half are "ifs" other half are "should have been".
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:19 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I was referring to you saying Narvarro was/is a top 5 european player. Dirk has proven his worth in the NBA so yes, he could come off the bench (yes, he WOULDNT start for Team USA). So there you go. You got me. BTW how did Dirk do against Team USA again?
You're either simply acting as a troll right now or your basketball knowledge is severely lacking.

You know and I know that when a team has a single star player they key in on him. Seeing how Germany is made up of no one besides Chris Kaman and Dirk and Kaman is not much of an offensive threat anyways, a team as talented as USA could/did/will key in on him and put him in double/triple teams. Doesn't take that much to figure it out. And he's probably start ahead of Melo.

Secondly, what Bel and a few others are saying is that the overall talent gap since 1992 when the first Dream Team was entered to 2008 has shrunken significantly. In 1992 you had two teams who could challenge or make USA work slightly harder and those were Croatia and Yugoslavia. Hell and neither could really beat the 1992 Dream Team but they made them work slighly harder than Italy, Lithuania or Angola did.

Today, the US HAD to work hard to win that game against Spain. It wasn't that the US had "the worst defensive game in years" it was that Spain gave them a run for their money. They did what was expected of them the entire tournament and that was challenge for the Gold medal. They hit the shots, they played defense. This wasn't a 30 point blow out. And THAT's the difference today between 1992 and 2008. The US won (the final score is pointless due to the last minute of that game being ridiculous with the FTs) but they didn't win handedly. In 1992 Croatia lost by 30. In 2008, the US was up 2 in the final quarter. That's a big difference.

By saying "there was no doubt" your simply being ignorant of the progress the game has made in Europe. Gasol was considered one of the best players in the NBA for the longest time; Dirk is one year removed from the MVP; Jose Calderon is considered by some a top 10 PG; Ricky Rubio is considered the next best PG to be coming into basketball; Luol Deng (yeah remember him) is considered a breakout candidate. The game has progressed and the dominance the US has held, regardless of what some may think is slowly slipping away. We're too blinded here because all we're fed is how great Kobe is, or how great LeBron is etc. etc. If not for Chris Paul they don't win that tourney. Period.

I don't think anyone here is saying Spain is the best nation in the world when it comes to basketball (but they did win the world championships which counts for more than the Olympic medal), but again that gap between 1 and 2 is a lot smaller than people think.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:31 PM   #110 (permalink)
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By saying "there was no doubt" your simply being ignorant of the progress the game has made in Europe.
Seeing as it was I who "had no doubt" I guess I can tell you to kiss my ass.

Call my ignorant if you'd like, which, is what you just did by posting that, but i know full well whats gong on in Europe. I know the level is high. I also know that no team, not spain, not anyone, has a team in place that can beat the top us team. Period.

So what if it wasn't 30. It was ten. And so what if they were whithin 2, they lost by ten.


You guys can carp all you want, thats fine, nobody said that the European game was bad, or that Spain wasn't a decent team. All that is being said is that the game is still the US game to lose, it's thier game, they still have the best players.

Don't forget one thing CG, that was a good US team, but it wasn't the best.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:50 PM   #111 (permalink)
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apparently FIBA will move the 3pt to NBA distance, which should make it close to impossible for anybody to ever beat USA in the near future, unless the top stars choose not to participate ...
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:42 PM   #112 (permalink)
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I also know that no team, not spain, not anyone, has a team in place that can beat the top us team. Period.
Remember, 10 travelling no calls per game, and almost all in the fast breaks ( 6 steps with putting the ball on the floor only once? Bolt be ready !!11!)
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:50 PM   #113 (permalink)
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hahhahaaaaa..

good stuff.

anyhow, like I said, all over for me, I look forward to getting back to the season
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:53 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Oh I was thinking,

I asked about the ball being smaller, which it isn't, as I couldn't figure out why the US was clangin back rim on every long distance shot.

I had no idea the 3pt line was closer.

That makes a HUGE difference. Especially in a short tournament.

I wonder why they don't make um the same
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:53 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Ok
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:55 PM   #116 (permalink)
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I wonder why they don't make um the same
I don't understand this "um"
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Old 08-26-2008, 04:01 PM   #117 (permalink)
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them

the distances
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Old 08-26-2008, 04:58 PM   #118 (permalink)
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I said in a thread a long time ago, making the line closer for international ball is bullshit and was a move to make much less talented teams have a chance to compete with the states, i never heard of them moving the line back, but if so.... GG world, it will be worse then before.

You can call me ignorant or whatever personal insults you want, i wont stoop to that level by personally insulting you because our opinions differ.

Gasol is a 2nd tier allstar at best, to say he is considered one of the true best is a lie. He is definately very good tho. Did he even play in the finals? I missed his disappearing act??

Rubio will be the starting PG in the future for Spain at the next games, no?

Plz, STOP CRYING about the walking/traveling... while your entire team flops around like fish, and jumps off the bench to question every call and gets in refs faces in ways no NBA ref would tolerate without getting T'd up. Until you stop treating basketball like soccer with the "play acting" you have no right to talk shit about any traveling. GG see you in 4 years and if the 3 point line is moved back... wow.

The playing field is closer then 1992, but not as close as you make it seem.... the USA has still yet to send its truely best team. Think about the orginal Dream Team? Your talking a starting lineup made of mostly all 50 greatest ever. They dont have that kind of team anymore, but like i said, with the exception of Redd (who btw would still start on any euro team), the last men off the bench would at worst be the 2nd option (Boozer) or even the go-to guy on any other team, until you can seriously argue different, theres still a HUGE gap!! Imagine USA truely sent its best team, KG, Timmy perhaps Amare and one can argue for so many other players. Hell my $ is the USA could send 2 teams that would compete for a medal.

Oh let me add, i dont really watch euro basketball for the same reason i dont really watch MLS soccer, why watch a subpar product when you can watch the best?

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Old 08-26-2008, 09:09 PM   #119 (permalink)
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not sure why you keep arguing ugo - the reality is that similar US teams have been beaten more than once in the past 10 years. So it is possible. And those teams were featuring just as much starpower as the current one. Obviously USA has the best players in the world, and they are big favorites against any opponent (you could probably argue that if USA fields 10 teams, they could potentially go 1-10 - that's how deep they are). But still -they are not invincible.

During the past decade, they have shown a few weaknesses, 3pt shooting, pick and roll defense, free throw shooting, focus and intensity - these are areas where they were NOT the best in the world. When it comes to speed, strength, agility and stamina, there is no country coming even remotely close.

So the bottom line is that while the americans are by far the best, they are not the best AT EVERYTHING. So once in a blue moon, they can lose. Especially if they are not 100% focused.

Also, I think the current team was really the best they could field. Duncan doesn't do well in international basketball, especially with the guard oriented style employed by the USA. And at 1, 2 and 3s, they had the best players in the league. So I'm not sure whether having KG or Duncan would have made any difference whatsoever.
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:23 PM   #120 (permalink)
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not sure why you keep arguing ugo - the reality is that similar US teams have been beaten more than once in the past 10 years. So it is possible. And those teams were featuring just as much starpower as the current one. Obviously USA has the best players in the world, and they are big favorites against any opponent (you could probably argue that if USA fields 10 teams, they could potentially go 1-10 - that's how deep they are). But still -they are not invincible.

During the past decade, they have shown a few weaknesses, 3pt shooting, pick and roll defense, free throw shooting, focus and intensity - these are areas where they were NOT the best in the world. When it comes to speed, strength, agility and stamina, there is no country coming even remotely close.

So the bottom line is that while the americans are by far the best, they are not the best AT EVERYTHING. So once in a blue moon, they can lose. Especially if they are not 100% focused.

Also, I think the current team was really the best they could field. Duncan doesn't do well in international basketball, especially with the guard oriented style employed by the USA. And at 1, 2 and 3s, they had the best players in the league. So I'm not sure whether having KG or Duncan would have made any difference whatsoever.

No, the teams they fielded before these Olmypics didnt gel well because they werent together for 3 years like this team was. And if you consider the team that had Antonio Davis etc as good as this one...

But yes some were, but they were thrown together quickly and expected to dominate, i agree this cant happen anymore, but you give them years to prepare and play together like all these other national teams do (actually those teams have played together for far more then 3 years), and a stable coaching situation, they will always own.

Duncan isnt crap internationally, he just knows the reffing is horrid and its not worth his time. Tim is never one to complain, yet he did in international play, because its a joke.

Again, if they move the 3 point line back, all these guys that hit 3s now but arent nearly as consistent in NBA 3s, it will make USA crush people even more. The gap has closed, but its still a gap, and if USA takes it seriously they will prove it everytime. I have doubts they will take it as seriously in 4 years tho.
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