Americans will lose - Page 3
Old 08-05-2008, 01:50 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Size, athleticism, strength-all the tools to be an absolute lockdown defender.
Yes, but defensive intelligence and defensive commitment are just as important.

That's why Kobe, despite lacking Lebron's outrageous physical tools, is a more effective perimeter defender.

Lebron gets by defensively on those things you mentioned, and it makes him an above average defender. Combine that with his ability to guard 1-4, and he could be the best defender in the league if he wanted to.

And Lebron's post game isn't where it should be at on either end of the floor, in my opinion. He can certainly handle a guy like Scola in the post, but he won't dominate him defensively because of Scola's craftiness.

I'd say Lebron is still a few years away from being an absolute lockdown defender.

I haven't been watching any of their games thus far otuside of the highlights, but it seems like Dwight is being somewhat underused. I know it's a guards game, but is there any other player in the Olympics who can even come close to handling Dwight down low?
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:01 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Kobe is a much better defender overall.

My point was that in this competition right now Lebron will handle guarding the 4 just as easily as Bosh or Boozer.

Dwight, Bosh and Boozer are all being underused, the team pays outside in not inside out. There is no one (well mabey AK47) that can guard USA's bigs.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:07 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I think if a player is a good defender-see James, L- then it doesnt matter where you are positioned. Nobody is pushing Lebron around that he would need to cover on defense and although someone like Scola is very skilled inside the paint if Lebron decided to could easily shut him down.

Size, athleticism, strength-all the tools to be an absolute lockdown defender.
I think this is a good debate, physical tools and talent vs knowledge and experience.

Lebron is a physical beast, he can bang with almost every big men I agree with that. But Scola can make LJ is in fouls trouble or get easy baskets with some fakes.

If you don't know what's up, it's difficult to know what to do IMO. If you don't believe me, ask Bargnani. (just kidding).
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:09 PM   #44 (permalink)
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so what you are saying is that the best team on the day wins
I'm saying that being a strong favorite against any team in the tournament doesn't necessarily make you a strong favorite to win the tournament. And I certainly don't believe USA should be 5 to 1 against Spain or Greece or Argentine.

So far, they play identically compared to 2 years ago - so they will face the same challenges.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:11 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SnoochieBoochie View Post
Kobe is a much better defender overall.

My point was that in this competition right now Lebron will handle guarding the 4 just as easily as Bosh or Boozer.

Dwight, Bosh and Boozer are all being underused, the team pays outside in not inside out. There is no one (well mabey AK47) that can guard USA's bigs.
Agreed, save Gasol. It has to be Howard, Bosh or Booz on Gasol.

You'd think working a little inside out would be beneficial with such a beast down low. It would help the other 4 guys (who may well be all guards) get a little more space.

As I said though...I haven't been watching. I don't know how they're being defended against.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:12 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I think this is a good debate, physical tools and talent vs knowledge and experience.

Lebron is a physical beast, he can bang with almost every big men I agree with that. But Scola can make LJ is in fouls trouble or get easy baskets with some fakes.
I dont know if I buy this, Lebron doesnt seem like the type that bites on fakes easily, but then again Ive never really seen him play down low on defense so everything I am saying is just assumptions.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:14 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Its his ability to guard stronger players on the inside that has always been his achillies heel....
Indeed. And he IS a PF, no?
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I dont know if I buy this, Lebron doesnt seem like the type that bites on fakes easily, but then again Ive never really seen him play down low on defense so everything I am saying is just assumptions.
Don't worry, same here.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:17 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Agreed, save Gasol. It has to be Howard, Bosh or Booz on Gasol.

You'd think working a little inside out would be beneficial with such a beast down low. It would help the other 4 guys (who may well be all guards) get a little more space.

As I said though...I haven't been watching. I don't know how they're being defended against.
Zone defense and slowed posessions. Russia's gameplan was to slow the US fast break. US has been scoring huge number off T/O's and breaking out the guards from there. They ran like 3 set plays against Russia.

I think the biggest thing is that the US is scoring off the fast breaks so well that the Bigs never bother to go set up, if they do post up they dont get the ball.

I still think that for this reason Camby should be there instead of Boozer, is there a better defender at the center in the nba.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:35 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Blatt, the head coach of the Russians, is the guy whom I repeatedly wished to see on the Raps' coaching staff. He is a great strategist and always has a custom-tailored game plan that takes into account the opponent's strengths and weaknesses. That's how they kept improving after losing pretty much all friendlies going into the Euro championship, only to take the gold.

He, and many others, obviously realized that you need to stop the American fastbreak to slow down their offence and then bog them down with zones - and that's the plan that Spaniards and Argentinians and Greeks will undoubtedly follow.

Last edited by MikeToronto; 08-06-2008 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:42 PM   #51 (permalink)
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He, and many others, obviously realized that you need to stop the American fastbreak to slow down thei offence and then bog then down with zones - and that's the plan that Spaniards and Argentinians and Greeks will undoubtedly follow.
Only the Spaniards have enough talent to mabey pull it off though, in my books anyway.........
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:51 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Only the Spaniards have enough talent to mabey pull it off though, in my books anyway.........
Well, I am rooting for them, ain't I?
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:03 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Well, I am rooting for them, ain't I?
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:22 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Australia played a very solid brand of a ball that can beat the US today but they didnt have enough talent to make it work. It would have been a lot more interesting if Bogut played and may have even come down to the last couple of mins with another guy who can handle the ball inside in their and actually pass it out to an open player. The turnovers in a couple of stretches in the 2nd and 3rd cost them the game pretty much.

If whoever(Spain/Arg/Greece) can limit their turnovers vs the US theres no doubt in my mind that they can be beat because their halfcourt game is a joke. Way too many shots created in isolation with pullups instead of driving and kicking. With Calderon/Lopez/Rubio/Rudy I dont think theyll have much trouble vs the US's traps especially with Gasols inside.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:53 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Apparently, I am not alone in thinking that USA might not win a gold medal. Chris Sheridan goes as far as to start preparing his readers for this eventuality:

Quote:
And, yes, Team USA might just lose.

But if so, would that be such a bad thing?

Let's all remember, the whole point of this tournament is to win the final three games -- the quarterfinals, semifinals and gold-medal match. In the end, whatever happens before then matters not one iota.

The Americans are in China to win the gold medal -- not to dominate every quarter, as they once spoke of, and not to restore American invincibility, which is never coming back.

They're human, they're vulnerable, they've got structural flaws, and they're going to learn at some point that this gold-medal quest is going to be a rough ride at times.

Maybe that's what they learned Tuesday on an evening when they entered the arena feeling bold and self-assured and left it pondering why they were made to look only slightly above-average against a mediocre team missing its only NBA player.
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:04 AM   #56 (permalink)
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OK, so Spain is through to the gold medals' game and it's time to bump this thread.

Let me start by saying that I feel less confident in my original prediction than I was when this thread was started. Team USA has improved, especially in their handling of zone defences and in their outside shooting. Jose got injured (not an excuse, an observation) and he is definitely a steadying hand that holds the Spanish team together.

However, and I am assuming here that US will beat Argentina later this morning (or night, depending on how you look at it), I still believe that Spaniards have intentionally not played their best ball in their pool meeting with Americans and that they are still capable of pulling an upset out of the hat, Calderon or no Calderon. IMHO, all will depend on how well Rubio deals with on-the-ball pressure, because Rudy will shine no matter what and Gasol brothers will give the US frontcourt all they can handle.

C'mon, Ricky, do you want to be a #1 overall pick next summer?! Go ahead and earn it, mofo!

Go, Spain!
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:09 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Ahhhhhhhh ha.

Mike.

You will bow to me soon.





heehee
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:23 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I got to admit I dont have a lot of hope anymore. Not because of how the americans are playings, great defense and their offense still does not impress me, because of Spains defense, rebounding an lack of outside shooting. It has been horrible. Spain is simply not playing how they can.

I would bet for Argentina over Spain right now.
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:40 AM   #59 (permalink)
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its 21-4 U.S right now

lol
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:42 AM   #60 (permalink)
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yeah its dissapointing
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