All-Star Game Returns - A plea to get DD/Lowry in the game - Page 4
Old 01-13-2014, 01:14 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Can you post the text please.
According to the story today by ESPN Insider Bradford Doolittle that relies on advanced stats to come up with a ranking of the NBA's top 10 point guards, Kyle Lowry just might be one of the most underrated players in the league today.

Using the TrueWARP metric, Bradford lists Toronto's athletic point guard No. 4 among point guards and No. 9 in all the NBA. Hard to believe, right? (Bradford explains more below) With Lowry set to become an unrestricted free agent at season's end, one has to believe that there's a good chance the Raptors will move him before the NBA's Feb. 20 trade deadline. This much we know -- the market is there.

Just this past weekend, Ken Berger of CBSSports.com wrote that sources indicate that the Lakers, Knicks, Nets, Timberwolves, Warriors and Celtics have all inquired about Lowry. "With the deadline less than seven weeks away, (Masai) Ujiri is said to have multiple deals he could do for Lowry that would involve receiving an expiring contract in return or slotting him into another team's trade exception," Berger wrote of Toronto's approach. "Taking back future salary would come at a high price, i.e. a first-round pick."

Here's Doolittle with more on what Lowry is doing so well this season.

Bradford DoolittleLowry has improved primarily in two areas"It's tempting to type an appeal for people to just recognize that Lowry is pretty good, but he remains the subject of numerous trade rumors, which kind of undermines that sentiment. Lowry was a controversial pick as the No. 8 point guard in the summer rankings. Since then, he's gone out and played even better than his ATH forecast, and at present ranks ninth in the league in WARP. There have been two primary areas of improvement. Lowry is taking and making more 3s than ever before, and he's posting lowest turnover rate of his career."
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:56 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Thanks gday

Another part of Lowry's improvement that stands out for me is his play in crunch time. His temperament has been steady under pressure beyond that as well. Last season he would have a fair number of possessions where he would try to take over and do it all himself, and as the pressure mounted his thinking and decision making just shut down, and it effected his own game as well as the team's.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:18 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Am I missing something? Why would trade expiring for expiring? Make our team MUCH worse with no gain?
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:21 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Am I missing something? Why would trade expiring for expiring? Make our team MUCH worse with no gain?
theoretically the gain would come on draft night.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:27 PM   #65 (permalink)
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afflalo this season: 20.8/4.4/3.9 with 0.6 spg and 0(!) bpg.
demar this season: 21.3/4.4/3.6 with 1.2 spg and 0.5 bpg

afflalo is a better shooter and defender, but the difference in wins between us and them pretty much shuts the debate off.

I should probably rephrase it, there is NO WAY afflalo makes it before demar does. Maybe they both make it, but I doubt it since at best they'll pick 7 guards if they move some to the SF spot, but most likely only 5 will be picked.
Way to ignore efficiency. DeMar has a 51.5% TS, Afflalo has a 58.6%. All while facing more defensive attention on a shitty Orlando team. Afflalo is a much better defender, and has been better in general than DeMar this season.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:37 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Way to ignore efficiency. DeMar has a 51.5% TS, Afflalo has a 58.6%. All while facing more defensive attention on a shitty Orlando team. Afflalo is a much better defender, and has been better in general than DeMar this season.
Even with the efficiency, it's hard to ignore the case for DD over Afflalo this year and it's only getting stronger as other pieces on Orlando get more involved and Demar continues to be a focus of our offense. Afflalo has been better but the difference is negligible at this point with respect to all-star selection.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:44 PM   #67 (permalink)
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The majority of all-star players come from winning teams. When the Raptors position themselves @ 3rd place in the Eastern Conference with 5-8 games above .500 close to the all-star break, it would be hard pressed not to include any Raptor players in the Eastern conference team.
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:49 PM   #68 (permalink)
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The majority of all-star players come from winning teams. When the Raptors position themselves @ 3rd place in the Eastern Conference with 5-8 games above .500 close to the all-star break, it would be hard pressed not to include any Raptor players in the Eastern conference team.
If Lowry gets picked, Demar doesn't make it, and vice-versa. Remember David Lee made it over Steph Curry last year.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:05 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Even with the efficiency, it's hard to ignore the case for DD over Afflalo this year and it's only getting stronger as other pieces on Orlando get more involved and Demar continues to be a focus of our offense. Afflalo has been better but the difference is negligible at this point with respect to all-star selection.
Coaches like defense. I think any advantage DeMar has over Afflalo due to being on a winning team will likely be lost on that end of the court. And Afflalo is still a more efficient and arguably better offensive player than DeMar as well.

Regardless, I think they'll both make it, but it would be an atrocity if DeMar made it and Afflalo didn't.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:14 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Coaches like defense. I think any advantage DeMar has over Afflalo due to being on a winning team will likely be lost on that end of the court. And Afflalo is still a more efficient and arguably better offensive player than DeMar as well.

Regardless, I think they'll both make it, but it would be an atrocity if DeMar made it and Afflalo didn't.
Demar is on a top 5 defense playing 40 minutes a game and Afflalo is on a team with a terrible record. Do you really think coaches will look past that so readily, and that it would be an atrocity for them to not do so?
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:17 PM   #71 (permalink)
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According to the story today by ESPN Insider Bradford Doolittle that relies on advanced stats to come up with a ranking of the NBA's top 10 point guards, Kyle Lowry just might be one of the most underrated players in the league today.

Using the TrueWARP metric, Bradford lists Toronto's athletic point guard No. 4 among point guards and No. 9 in all the NBA. Hard to believe, right? (Bradford explains more below) With Lowry set to become an unrestricted free agent at season's end, one has to believe that there's a good chance the Raptors will move him before the NBA's Feb. 20 trade deadline. This much we know -- the market is there.

Just this past weekend, Ken Berger of CBSSports.com wrote that sources indicate that the Lakers, Knicks, Nets, Timberwolves, Warriors and Celtics have all inquired about Lowry. "With the deadline less than seven weeks away, (Masai) Ujiri is said to have multiple deals he could do for Lowry that would involve receiving an expiring contract in return or slotting him into another team's trade exception," Berger wrote of Toronto's approach. "Taking back future salary would come at a high price, i.e. a first-round pick."

Here's Doolittle with more on what Lowry is doing so well this season.

Bradford DoolittleLowry has improved primarily in two areas"It's tempting to type an appeal for people to just recognize that Lowry is pretty good, but he remains the subject of numerous trade rumors, which kind of undermines that sentiment. Lowry was a controversial pick as the No. 8 point guard in the summer rankings. Since then, he's gone out and played even better than his ATH forecast, and at present ranks ninth in the league in WARP. There have been two primary areas of improvement. Lowry is taking and making more 3s than ever before, and he's posting lowest turnover rate of his career."
Wonder if these sources are the same sources that were the source of previous according to sources stories that seemed to leave those sources without a good source of information.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:34 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Wonder if these sources are the same sources that were the source of previous according to sources stories that seemed to leave those sources without a good source of information.
Source.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:04 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Demar is on a top 5 defense playing 40 minutes a game and Afflalo is on a team with a terrible record. Do you really think coaches will look past that so readily, and that it would be an atrocity for them to not do so?
I do, because IMO Afflalo has been hands down the best SG in the east thus far and if he doesn't make the game it will be, in my view at least, an atrocity.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:07 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Wonder if these sources are the same sources that were the source of previous according to sources stories that seemed to leave those sources without a good source of information.
Man sources are awesome
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:09 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I do, because IMO Afflalo has been hands down the best SG in the east thus far and if he doesn't make the game it will be, in my view at least, an atrocity.
ya, but the Magic aren't even remotely competitive. they're absolute garbage.

that makes a huge difference imo.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:01 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I do, because IMO Afflalo has been hands down the best SG in the east thus far and if he doesn't make the game it will be, in my view at least, an atrocity.
I get that you IYO think he is da bomb, but you again failed to address my question. Do you think it is such an atrocity for coaches to consider Demar as a guy playing on a top 5 defensive team and surging with him leading in part? Or do you want to insist that Afflalo beats him habds down in the coaches minds due to defense and in spite of no success or team results of any kind? Remember you suggested defense would be a difference maker, but will it really when you consider what Demar is a big part of? Or will results in fact matter?
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:56 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I get that you IYO think he is da bomb, but you again failed to address my question. Do you think it is such an atrocity for coaches to consider Demar as a guy playing on a top 5 defensive team and surging with him leading in part? Or do you want to insist that Afflalo beats him habds down in the coaches minds due to defense and in spite of no success or team results of any kind? Remember you suggested defense would be a difference maker, but will it really when you consider what Demar is a big part of? Or will results in fact matter?
I think team success is being overblown just a bit here. Kyrie Irving, who I'm pretty sure has not won over 30 games in a season, was an all-star. It does help, but when you have a guy who is simply a better player, he should be making it over the other guy. Though I think if you have two similar players they should go with the guy with more team success.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:09 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I get that you IYO think he is da bomb, but you again failed to address my question. Do you think it is such an atrocity for coaches to consider Demar as a guy playing on a top 5 defensive team and surging with him leading in part? Or do you want to insist that Afflalo beats him habds down in the coaches minds due to defense and in spite of no success or team results of any kind? Remember you suggested defense would be a difference maker, but will it really when you consider what Demar is a big part of? Or will results in fact matter?
He doesn't take defense into consideration when looking at players...It'll be a lost argument. According to Matt and Jack though, Demar is now averaging more PPG then Afflalo, so he cannot argue that since he's all about offense.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:31 PM   #79 (permalink)
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According to Matt and Jack though, Demar is now averaging more PPG then Afflalo
surprisingly enough, he averages more points according to the official stats as well.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:23 AM   #80 (permalink)
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He doesn't take defense into consideration when looking at players...It'll be a lost argument. According to Matt and Jack though, Demar is now averaging more PPG then Afflalo, so he cannot argue that since he's all about offense.
What? You realize Afflalo is by far a better defender than Demar, right? That's been a large part of my argument thus far, if you bothered to actually read the posts. And according to you, PPG is an ineffective way of ranking players. Afflalo has been way more efficient on similar volume, easily a better defender, and they're pretty much equal everywhere else. Afflalo is the better player, and IMO that should come over team success at this point.

And damn, the DeMar groupies are really all over this thread, huh?
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