The All-in-One Bargnani Hate Thread - Page 6

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View Poll Results: To Trade or not to trade?
Trade him 22 25.88%
Keep him 38 44.71%
Tank and then further build around him 6 7.06%
Tank then trade him 19 22.35%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-18-2010, 11:53 AM   #101 (permalink)
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He'd probably be a good fit with the Knicks style.
I doubt it. They're all offence no defence, sound familiar. I don't where he'd fit, Orlando perhaps with a low post dominant Center? Who knows though.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:58 AM   #102 (permalink)
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I doubt it. They're all offence no defence, sound familiar. I don't where he'd fit, Orlando perhaps with a low post dominant Center? Who knows though.
That's why he'd be a good fit in NYC.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:59 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
Really we should trade Bargs, I have been one of his biggest supports but it is time for him to go. I recommend we package him and Jose for...

A 7'0
Scores over 20 pts a game
Averages 10 rebounds
Plays great man defense
Is an awesome help defender
Can shoot the 3
Is a team leader


If we do that we would be amazing.
get the deal done.... we should also replace Colangelo with Benzo... still Italian sounding too
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:02 PM   #104 (permalink)
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get the deal done.... we should also replace Colangelo with Benzo... still Italian sounding too
italian version would be benzzo
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:04 PM   #105 (permalink)
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That's why he'd be a good fit in NYC.
Why, he doesn't fit here in the same kind of system. I think he needs to play PF with a dominant Center that plays at the rim.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:08 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Give the guy a chance to finish the season. Bosh struggled his first season when he tried to be "the guy."

Also , judge him for who he is not for who everyone thought he would be by now.

Bargnani's value will only get higher, now is definietly not a good time to deal him. Our team is so garbage Bargs can only improve.

PLZ trade jarret jack, hes horrible. Jose > Jack anyday.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:11 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Give the guy a chance to finish the season. Bosh struggled his first season when he tried to be "the guy."

Also , judge him for who he is not for who everyone thought he would be by now.

Bargnani's value will only get higher, now is definietly not a good time to deal him. Our team is so garbage Bargs can only improve.

PLZ trade jarret jack, hes horrible. Jose > Jack anyday.
great point on Bargnani's value... now Jack's value can't get much higher... and Jose seems to be improving.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:15 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzo View Post
Really we should trade Bargs, I have been one of his biggest supports but it is time for him to go. I recommend we package him and Jose for...

A 7'0
Scores over 20 pts a game
Averages 10 rebounds
Plays great man defense
Is an awesome help defender
Can shoot the 3
Is a team leader


If we do that we would be amazing.
what do the above....the easter bunny and santa clause all have in common?
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:28 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Why, he doesn't fit here in the same kind of system. I think he needs to play PF with a dominant Center that plays at the rim.
Sorry dude, we don't play like the Knicks and he would fit D'Antoni's system or the Suns or a team coached by Nellie.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:36 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Sorry dude, we don't play like the Knicks and he would fit D'Antoni's system or the Suns or a team coached by Nellie.
I agree. He needs to be paired with a frontcourt player with good size and length that can play both positions, but is more defensive minded. Reggie doesn't have the size or length, and Amir doesn't have the size to start alongside Bargnani. Dalembert is the guy I like if he could be motivated. He'd be cheaper next year too.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:46 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I agree. He needs to be paired with a frontcourt player with good size and length that can play both positions, but is more defensive minded. Reggie doesn't have the size or length, and Amir doesn't have the size to start alongside Bargnani. Dalembert is the guy I like if he could be motivated. He'd be cheaper next year too.
A frontcourt of Andrea and Dalembert. That my friend is an idea that brings Bosch's depictions of hell come to life for me. Thank you for that. Talk about two guys that never do the little things.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:47 PM   #112 (permalink)
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it's difficult to discuss Bargnani on this forum, because of the still fairly significant number of Bosh loyalists who traditionally used andrea as an escape goat for CB's failings.

that being said, looking through the maddening inconsistency, there are several good signs. His offensive game is very improved, especially when faced with smaller defenders (had monster games against lewis, landry or brand). He can now push these average sized PFs in the post and score over them with his height advantage. When faced by a tall and quick defender (mcgee, bosh), he struggle because he couldn't create easy shots for himself. Nevertheless, he's proving capable of creating his own shots, at least against certain type of opponents.

Defense and rebounding, I also think he has improved. It doesn't show in the stats, because he's alternating good games with absolutely horrible ones, but when he was good, he was better than any time last season.

Of course, his biggest issues are consistency and focus, and sadly there's no improvement in that area. Those are critical, because the bad nights are too frequent. All nba players have bad nights, but Andrea has way too many. The weird part is that there doesn't seem be a straight connection between fatigue and bad nights, his best game of the season was last night, coming on a B2B.

To summarize, when he was good, he was better than ever in his career. When he was bad, he was atrocious. Just like demar, in the short term, I'd rather have a player that shows he can be very good at times, because at least there's hope that gradually he can increase the good games/bad games ratio, as opposed to someone who clearly won't ever be much. Unlike derozan though, the leash should be much shorter with andrea, because of his experience. I'm willing to give him a couple of months to adjust to his new role on the team, but by the end of the season, if he's not showing significant improvements in focus/consistency, it's time to part ways.

Contrary to some opinions, I think he has good value. On a team with a great PG and/or a great defensive/rebounding center, his strengths will be maximized, and his weaknesses diminished. If he doesn't have to be the primary help defender, he can focus on his individual defense which is above average, and boxing out is something that could be improved. Offensively, he would be huge for a good team, not because of his shot-creation, but the space he can create. Pair him with a duncan or howard and he'd be deadly.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:51 PM   #113 (permalink)
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what do the above....the easter bunny and santa clause all have in common?
All are loved by Dark Knight....except Benzo.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:52 PM   #114 (permalink)
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All we need is to arrange the schedule so we only play bad teams with soft defenses and piss poor offensive sets, and we have our guy. And before anyone points to a so-called monster night in Orlando, show me what he did in the second half.

Oh - but excuse me - I'm just a Bosh loyalist. Nice one moremilk. A whole new level of ridiculous excuses.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:09 PM   #115 (permalink)
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All are loved by Dark Knight....except Benzo.
No all all are figments of your fucking imagination...


* courtesy "chasing amy"
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Old 11-18-2010, 03:07 PM   #116 (permalink)
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RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Blazers Held Internal Discussions On Offering Roy In Trade Proposals

So, Roy's knees have caught up with him, unfortunately. It's now down to Gay or Aldridge vs. Bargnani, eh?

Even 20/20 hindsight is often compromised...
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:43 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
it's difficult to discuss Bargnani on this forum, because of the still fairly significant number of Bosh loyalists who traditionally used andrea as an escape goat for CB's failings.

that being said, looking through the maddening inconsistency, there are several good signs. His offensive game is very improved, especially when faced with smaller defenders (had monster games against lewis, landry or brand). He can now push these average sized PFs in the post and score over them with his height advantage. When faced by a tall and quick defender (mcgee, bosh), he struggle because he couldn't create easy shots for himself. Nevertheless, he's proving capable of creating his own shots, at least against certain type of opponents.

Defense and rebounding, I also think he has improved. It doesn't show in the stats, because he's alternating good games with absolutely horrible ones, but when he was good, he was better than any time last season.

Of course, his biggest issues are consistency and focus, and sadly there's no improvement in that area. Those are critical, because the bad nights are too frequent. All nba players have bad nights, but Andrea has way too many. The weird part is that there doesn't seem be a straight connection between fatigue and bad nights, his best game of the season was last night, coming on a B2B.

To summarize, when he was good, he was better than ever in his career. When he was bad, he was atrocious. Just like demar, in the short term, I'd rather have a player that shows he can be very good at times, because at least there's hope that gradually he can increase the good games/bad games ratio, as opposed to someone who clearly won't ever be much. Unlike derozan though, the leash should be much shorter with andrea, because of his experience. I'm willing to give him a couple of months to adjust to his new role on the team, but by the end of the season, if he's not showing significant improvements in focus/consistency, it's time to part ways.

Contrary to some opinions, I think he has good value. On a team with a great PG and/or a great defensive/rebounding center, his strengths will be maximized, and his weaknesses diminished. If he doesn't have to be the primary help defender, he can focus on his individual defense which is above average, and boxing out is something that could be improved. Offensively, he would be huge for a good team, not because of his shot-creation, but the space he can create. Pair him with a duncan or howard and he'd be deadly.
In spite of what you may believe about these "Bosh loyalists" the ideas that you've put forth here have already been discussed by those very same people....

It's not that Andrea sucks. He's clearly talented on the offensive end.

He's just not a good fit for our team because he needs to play with either....

a) a dynamic PG who can penetrate the defense at will (i.e. Deron, Nash, CP3)

OR

b) a strong defensive-minded post player (D12, Noah, McGee, maybe Love?) who can cover up his weaknesses on the defensive end.

We have neither.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:45 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
In spite of what you may believe about these "Bosh loyalists" the ideas that you've put forth here have already been discussed by those very same people....

It's not that Andrea sucks. He's clearly talented on the offensive end.

He's just not a good fit for our team because he needs to play with either....

a) a dynamic PG who can penetrate the defense at will (i.e. Deron, Nash, CP3)

OR

b) a strong defensive-minded post player (D12, Noah, McGee, maybe Love?) who can cover up his weaknesses on the defensive end.

We have neither.
Maybe we can get one in time, which makes me believe all the hate is unwarranted. Great explanation on Bargs from hoopsworld:


We hear the constant complaints that Bargnani doesn't rebound enough and can't defend. And who wouldn't want a veteran All-Star at center for your team. (But there just aren't many available)

The reality is Bargs is a decent man-on-man defender who struggles with his help defense. Plus no big man in the NBA gets 10 boards a night when paired up with another double-digit rebounder - it just isn't going to happen.

We tend to get fixated on what players can't do rather than what they can and if that meshes with the team's needs.

Paired up with Reggie Evans, the Raptors are out rebounding their opposition by 1.5 boards a game this season - when was the last time that's been said?

And Bargs is the Raptors only 20 ppg player that they have this season - and this is this first season that he has been thrust into that role. And he seems to be getting better at it as the season moves along.

No 3-point shooter is hot every night - for every 4-5 night, he will have a 0-5. A really good 3-pt shooter only hits 40% on average and Bargs is at 43% for the season. No compliants here.

This year's Raptors have made a lot of changes - again - and the start has been even rougher than expected - but it is hard to lay the blame at Bargnani's feet - he is just one of several players who are having to step into more responsible roles.

And on salary - at $10m per year average for a big man who is getting you 20 points a night - find me another one in the league who isn't on their rookie contract at that price. It's called the going rate.

Bargs is not a max player - but he isn't being paid anywhere near max money either.


Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?C...#ixzz15fm9wxgB
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:02 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
In spite of what you may believe about these "Bosh loyalists" the ideas that you've put forth here have already been discussed by those very same people....

It's not that Andrea sucks. He's clearly talented on the offensive end.

He's just not a good fit for our team because he needs to play with either....

a) a dynamic PG who can penetrate the defense at will (i.e. Deron, Nash, CP3)

OR

b) a strong defensive-minded post player (D12, Noah, McGee, maybe Love?) who can cover up his weaknesses on the defensive end.

We have neither.
Kyrie Irving is a Chris Paul type of pg and i really hope we can get him in the draft this year. And we could also get a Marc Gasol or Greg Oden from free agency
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:14 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Kyrie Irving is a Chris Paul type of pg and i really hope we can get him in the draft this year. And we could also get a Marc Gasol or Greg Oden from free agency
Greg Oden? The guy who is getting microfracture again???
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