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Old 02-11-2011, 06:56 AM   #121 (permalink)
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He can't handle his role. His role is like Rashard Lewis' role in Orlando.
He is so frustrated to watch. He is so free, he play how he wants, shoot when he wants. But he is just more terrible now. And lazy... Maybe coach needs to reduce his minutes, Bargnani just tries to save his energy, cause he cares just how to score now.
Everyone hates Kleiza, cause he is even more inconsistent shooter. But his role in Toronto is so... ''inconvenient''. He is not a shooter and he can't dribble. he was forced to be what hes not. While Bargnani is free now, and it's just hurting the team, not only on D IMO.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:26 AM   #122 (permalink)
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My standards always remain being able to fill a Rick Smits role. Six weeks ago I saw enough effort and energy to convince me that he could surpass that. He doesn't need to average 10 rebounds, but he has to look like he'll get 10 every once in a while, while filling that scoring role that Insider talks about, and also providing some semblence of resistance on D. That was all looking good. In my blog I said that I was just looking for that to continue and for his play to be consistent enough to be counted on whenever needed. Boom. That expectation fell off a cliff.

Let's just make him nothing but a scorer. Well he fills that role pretty poorly. 17- the number of games he has shot under 40 percent. A lot of those games are in the low thirties, and some in the twenties. And it always comes with a lot of shots. It isn't going to matter what position he plays or the level of talent around him. That's what he's done year after year - having some fantastic all-around games for a stretch, and then struggling with everything, including scoring. If you want to point to the ability to still put up 30 points or whatever, that's just not going to mean much when it happens so infrequently and so inefficiently most of the time.

And again - he is a big - whether it's at C or PF - and there needs to be some focus on defense and rebounding, or else there just isn't much point in this team playing the game. Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom how you can give up so much right at the start.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:02 AM   #123 (permalink)
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The thing about Bargs that gets me is this: how is it that he doesn't understand basic fundamentals like boxing out and help side defence 5 years into his pro career? He also cannot finish with his left hand to save his life.

He is clearly lazy and stupid. Just a dumb, dumb player.
Frankly, I expected much more from a 1st overall pick.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:50 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by prebozzio View Post
He must grow and he has his faults, in fact that's what I wrote in my post ("Andrea has a lot of faults. He MUST work on defense, he MUST grab more rebounds, he MUST use his big body. But he actually is not the major responsable for Raptors bad record"), but there a big difference between been a victim or the main cause. In my opinion he is neither victim nor main cause, but for sure he is not Raptors problem.
All this defending of and excuses for Bargnani makes it seem as if we who critique his play are an angry mob simply hating on a player. While the truth is quite the opposite. We care about his success as much as the biggest Bargnani fanboy, yet for a different reason, because he's part of the team we are fanboys of. There for, he is not a victim. We aren't blaming him for our record, we are blaming him for his own record as an NBA player.

And our language and tone are harsh because we've seen same old thing too many seasons in a row to hold anything back. None of the excuses layed out by those defending him make any sense. None at all. From 'his teammates steal his rebounds' to the one you made 'this is his first season as a first option'.

The excuse you made would make sense if Bargs was struggling with double teams or the full dedicated attention of opponent's D or play down the stretch in close games or anything that is usually tough for people to handle at first.

But there simply isn't any possible excuse for his attitude, lack of effort and dedication which is ONLY ILLUSTRATED by his terrible rebounding and D.

It's one thing people don't seem to understand. No one is expecting Bargs after all these years to suddenly have these 30p-20r-6a games or whatever the stats might tell. What we are pointing out with his stats are the symptoms of a very bad behavior that leads to bad performance. And we are fed up with it after half a decade.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:50 AM   #125 (permalink)
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The "problem" is that we have a 7 foot SG.

Move him to the 3, not like we have anything to lose. Hopefully he can handle that, since his natural position is the 2.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:53 AM   #126 (permalink)
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*Looks at LX*
A bet thread on how many double digit rebounding games he ends up with at the end of the season could be a very interesting one.
I made this bet already at the start of the season. I gave up any hope of winning the bet yesterday. It cost me 20. Man was I ever wrong thinking some of the Bosh rebounds would find their way into his hands. He either just doesn't give a fuck or is afraid.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:03 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Bargnani does look like he is afraid.
I am yet to see some hustle from that guy when the ball is not in his hands.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:11 PM   #128 (permalink)
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too many are ready to write off players when this team is so bad. yet they think they can trade players they hate for studs.... where is the reality channel?
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:13 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Bargnani does look like he is afraid.
I am yet to see some hustle from that guy when the ball is not in his hands.
It's a good point - but I have to say that I have. And it gets me very happy to see him actually playing basketball. When it happens I could care less about stats of any kind. I would come to his defense and make excuses if that is what I saw regularly. That is really all I have ever expected. But it is the exception, and not at all the rule, and that is where the anger and disappointment comes from. Instead of hustle he finds spots on the floor where he can just be negated. It's almost as though he works to achieve a certain invisibility. And that ends up effecting his game when he does have the ball. When he plays an honest game for it's entirety, he takes on a more commanding presence in all aspects of the game that is wonderful. To not see that so often is just depressing and impossible to figure out.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:14 PM   #130 (permalink)
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It's a good point - but I have to say that I have. And it gets me very happy to see him actually playing basketball. When it happens I could care less about stats of any kind. I would come to his defense and make excuses if that is what I saw regularly. That is really all I have ever expected. But it is the exception, and not at all the rule, and that is where the anger and disappointment comes from. Instead of hustle he finds spots on the floor where he can just be negated. It's almost as though he works to achieve a certain invisibility. And that ends up effecting his game when he does have the ball. When he plays an honest game for it's entirety, he takes on a more commanding presence in all aspects of the game that is wonderful. To not see that so often is just depressing and impossible to figure out.
well put.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:25 PM   #131 (permalink)
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All this defending of and excuses for Bargnani makes it seem as if we who critique his play are an angry mob simply hating on a player. While the truth is quite the opposite. We care about his success as much as the biggest Bargnani fanboy, yet for a different reason, because he's part of the team we are fanboys of. There for, he is not a victim. We aren't blaming him for our record, we are blaming him for his own record as an NBA player.

And our language and tone are harsh because we've seen same old thing too many seasons in a row to hold anything back. None of the excuses layed out by those defending him make any sense. None at all. From 'his teammates steal his rebounds' to the one you made 'this is his first season as a first option'.

The excuse you made would make sense if Bargs was struggling with double teams or the full dedicated attention of opponent's D or play down the stretch in close games or anything that is usually tough for people to handle at first.

But there simply isn't any possible excuse for his attitude, lack of effort and dedication which is ONLY ILLUSTRATED by his terrible rebounding and D.

It's one thing people don't seem to understand. No one is expecting Bargs after all these years to suddenly have these 30p-20r-6a games or whatever the stats might tell. What we are pointing out with his stats are the symptoms of a very bad behavior that leads to bad performance. And we are fed up with it after half a decade.
YES.

As fans I don't think that MOST of us are that demanding.... everyone knew that we were going to suck going into this season.

You can excuse "poor play" due to a lack of talent... you can't excuse "poor play" due to a lack of effort.

It's why we hated Vince in his last year before he left....

It's why we hated Hedo when he was here...

TRY. Just freaking TRY on a regular basis and the hate will go away.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:45 PM   #132 (permalink)
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I still say it's instinct more than effort.


Bargnani is like this offensive frankenstein, created with an freakishly athletic body, a super quick release, and a ridiculous quick first step. His creators never cared much for defense, intangibles or hustle.

To Bargnani's credit, I think he's put a lot of effort into being able to constantly react, he just has so much ground to make up for. The problem is most NBA players were hustling and reacting back when they were 5 years old. Their basketball instincts, to react and read situations in a matter of nano-seconds, were fine tuned over years and years of pick up and city leagues. Their reaction times have always been the best of the best.

You watch Bargnani play and it doesn't look like fighting for rebounds or playing team defense was something he had to do growing up. It's something that was probably first introduced to him when he starting playing pro ball in Europe, and even then it was documented that his coach told him explicitly where to be and what to do. From what I remember, it didn't sound like Bargs had to do much thinking for himself in Europe.

Last edited by bjjs; 02-11-2011 at 12:48 PM.
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