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Old 02-09-2011, 02:15 PM   #61 (permalink)
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bargnani = 21.2 points per game (18th in the league)...his defense may be shit, but atleast he is contributing in some sort of way. cant say that about most of the players on this team.
He scores, then costs his team points at the other end by not defending or rebounding which leads to 2nd, 3rd chance pts against which deminishes what he he does on offense.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:18 PM   #62 (permalink)
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He scores, then costs his team points at the other end by not defending or rebounding which leads to 2nd, 3rd chance pts against which deminishes what he he does on offense.
if it were up to me, id have him as pf, get a solid defensive c to mask his deficiences...he will atleast have height advantage on most pfs.....its worth a try anyways, we have him signed on for plenty of more years anyway
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:18 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Bargnani is a 7 foot Mike James. His play is detrimental to the team.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:20 PM   #64 (permalink)
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if it were up to me, id have him as pf, get a solid defensive c to mask his deficiences...he will atleast have height advantage on most pfs.....its worth a try anyways, we have him signed on for plenty of more years anyway
Bargnani basically plays pf while Amir is guarding the centre. He'll always give up more points than he scores. What's the point of scoring 20 a game if your giving your opponent 20 a night too?
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:25 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Bargnani basically plays pf while Amir is guarding the centre. He'll always give up more points than he scores. What's the point of scoring 20 a game if your giving your opponent 20 a night too?
thats why we get tyson chandler
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:28 PM   #66 (permalink)
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thats why we get tyson chandler
You'd be a fool if you think Chandler would cover up Bargnani's defense.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:28 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I'm just completely bored by the guy at this point.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:32 PM   #68 (permalink)
"We were making progress, until Garnett [expletive] everything up"

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You'd be a fool if you think Chandler would cover up Bargnani's defense.
he would help, obv its impossible for one person to completely mask his defense.

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Old 02-09-2011, 02:36 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Bargnani basically plays pf while Amir is guarding the centre. He'll always give up more points than he scores. What's the point of scoring 20 a game if your giving your opponent 20 a night too?
Alot of plaers are giving up as much as they get in a raps uniform. Bosh did and it was ok, just saying. We havent had a bigman who had a positive net in regards to point differential since the days of Oak.

Reggie worked fine beside Bargs and Chandler would be a ridiculously good fit. but any ceter/pf with some size and hustle would help immensly with Bargs problems as would a sf that can rebound, defend his own spot and help out on the weakside.

Would love to see Young and Chandler suited up in the red and whites.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:37 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I'm just completely bored by the guy at this point.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:50 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I think it's really easy to jump on a guy when he's struggling and not just for a few games, but for a month or so. Also, watching Jose go 2 for 15 and DeRozan go the whole third while almost perfect from the floor and not get a shot attempt until the dying seconds of the quarter is enough to make you want to throw stuff at the TV. Fortunately, I don't have as much invested in the outcome of these games as some of you other guys seem to. To me, this year is nothing more than the beginning of a process that is long overdue. It's frustrating, but you need to look at the bigger picture. This team is probably a few years away from being a playoff team, we're rebuilding and it is what it is. Also, if you think for one second the management and even the coaching staff are somehow blind to this certain individuals weaknesses, you're fooling yourself.
He was a number 1 pick.

He had time to grow along Bosh, meaning he wasn't forced in to anything too early that could have destroyed his career(ala Kwame Brown who had potential but was totally destroyed early on in his career).

He has had all the backing of the players, coaches and the management. Mauricio was brought in especially for the help with Bargnani and then for everything else.

Team extended his contract for 5 years 50M $. Excellent money for somebody who still didn't prove anything.

And now he has been given the role of #1 player on the team, a definite chance to establish himself as one of the premiere players in the league and world.

What more could he possibly ask for or need to start playing?

Nothing.

And he deserves all the criticism there is. He simply doesn't seem like he ever wants to get out of his comfort zone or ever do something he doesn't really like.

The only possible excuse for some things could be Triano's coaching which is just as bad as Bargnani's rebounding. But even that can't excuse his rebounding which is simply a complete lack of effort.

And Bargnani isn't struggling for a month or so, he's been struggling his whole career with few random spurts of few weeks of good play and that's it. He simply isn't a very good player and Colangelo needs to get rid of him as soon as possible.

And as a comparison, Peja Stojakovic, a pure shooter and an SF and a few inches shorter than Bargnani, before the injuries had destroyed his career HAS HAD better rebounding numbers than Bargs while playing in Sacremento alongside Divac and Webber. HELLOO!!! PEJA!!! Come on! Peja was constantly labeled as pussy by the Kings fans for his below average defense and choking and for them the definition of 'mangina'. But Peja proved to be a solid solid player at that time and had his best season when Webber was injured for a year. He averaged ~ 24ppg , 6rbpg, 2apg. And the Kings had an excellent record that year, one of the top teams in the league.

And NOTHING, NOTHING annoys me more than when people(not you Acie) make the excuse for Bargnani that his TEAMMATES are STEALING rebounds from him. HELLO!!! WHAT THE FUCK? You mean the guys that play with him and for him don't let him get rebounds? So how does anyone in the world expect that the guys on the opposing team, guys actually playing AGAINST Bargnani are EVER GOING TO LET HIM GET REBOUNDS?
It is by far the most idiotic and pathetic excuse ever.

And I totally agree with you about this season and expectations. I have had none. I don't care. I just wanted to see effort. And it isn't there. Bargnani simply has to go. Along with Triano. The rest are serviceable IMO but would probably be better off playing somewhere else in roles more suited to their talent and skill level while this team goes trough a full RESET.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:58 PM   #72 (permalink)
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i still like him and think he could have a valuable role on this team once we get a few more quality players. he's not doing much right now, but when he's on his game he's unstoppable offensively. we're not going to get a good roi for him in a trade, so we might as well buckle in for the long run and hope we can surround him with the kinds of guys that mask his issues and allow him to flourish. he's clearly not a #1 guy, and only has that role because we lost ours and didn't have a replacement. it's not like anyone intended to build a team around him as the go to player and captain.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:01 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Alot of plaers are giving up as much as they get in a raps uniform. Bosh did and it was ok, just saying. We havent had a bigman who had a positive net in regards to point differential since the days of Oak.

Reggie worked fine beside Bargs and Chandler would be a ridiculously good fit. but any ceter/pf with some size and hustle would help immensly with Bargs problems as would a sf that can rebound, defend his own spot and help out on the weakside.

Would love to see Young and Chandler suited up in the red and whites.
I agree that Bosh's D wasn't that good.

But Bosh did a lot of good stuff, he was the sole reason why this team had any chance to compete at all while he was here.

As an example, last year as a number one option Bosh was #7 in the league in Free Throws Attempted with 590 attempts in 70 games. That is an average of 8.4 per game.

Bargnani this year as a #1 option has had 225 FTA in 46 games, average of 4.8 per game.

Bosh as a #3 option on a Miami team this year has had 265 in 48 games which is 5.5 a game.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:04 PM   #74 (permalink)
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i still like him and think he could have a valuable role on this team once we get a few more quality players. he's not doing much right now, but when he's on his game he's unstoppable offensively. we're not going to get a good roi for him in a trade, so we might as well buckle in for the long run and hope we can surround him with the kinds of guys that mask his issues and allow him to flourish. he's clearly not a #1 guy, and only has that role because we lost ours and didn't have a replacement. it's not like anyone intended to build a team around him as the go to player and captain.
He stops himself. It's the one thing that is consistent about him. He has no interest in doing anything to get his game going. He is unstoppable most of the time, when he floats out beyond the arc. There's no stopping him from cranking up shots out there. He's usually left open, so instead of forcing the issue when there are defenders to deal with, he'll step out there and crank away. The problem is that he misses so many open shots from out there that it isn't funny.

So what role is going to work for him? He doesn't stretch the defense - they'll give him his shitty, hopeless chucks from long distance. He doesn't guard anyone well one-on-one, and he's terrible with help. And when he gets help, he can't even grab the rebound. If we need to buckle in then this team is so utterly hopeless it isn't even funny. In december I could see a role that might work somehow - but lo and behold he was just in the midst of offering us his annual 6-week tease. What has happened since shows me that six years in has left him with no clue about what a good shot is, how to get the most out of his own abilities, and how to be any kind of key piece on a team. He's always been thought to be a key piece at least, and if they can't find the guys that can mask his issues six years in, then how much longer do we need to wait? And how badly is it going to effect a rebuild, when finding such players becomes such a necessity, and the chances are good that he still stops himself from flourishing anyway? He's still going to be looking for major minutes and how are all his issues going to get masked for 40 minutes a night? It's a nightmare.

I mean the evidence is there staring at us in the face. At the moment it's easy to look past it and hope for better tomorrows. He certainly isn't hurting our drafting chances right now. But if this guy gets passed off as anything more than an annual six-week wonder from here on in, and by wonder I mean a guy that doesn't completely kill the team's chances at winning, then this team will have reached the worst point in it's history.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:40 PM   #75 (permalink)
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when he's on he isn't just chucking from distance. when he's on he's in that mode where his hands catch the ball high, set and release without ever coming below his shoulders. he's attacking from the ft line and elbow, he's popping off mid-range shots, and when the d plays him close he's going in to the lane and hitting floaters and baby hooks. when he's doing that he's a devastating offensive player. but when he's not doing that he's awful, and that has been more often the case. but i still believe that putting him on a solid all-around team would let him do his thing without worrying about all the many things he's shitty at. and often that's what you get for a $10 mil big man. none of them are complete or they would be max guys.

but that offensive dominance is so tantalizing that i can't let it go. call me whatever you want for hoping that he can deliver that piece, but we're locked in and going to get 25 cents on the dollar if we try to move him, so i see no point in it.

and i don't believe the doom and gloom about the worst point in franchise history. he's just not that awful. he has a role that's not suited for him, and that role is as a main focus. that's killing us.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:46 PM   #76 (permalink)
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but that offensive dominance is so tantalizing that i can't let it go. call me whatever you want for hoping that he can deliver that piece, but we're locked in and going to get 25 cents on the dollar if we try to move him, so i see no point in it.
and i don't believe the doom and gloom about the worst point in franchise history. he's just not that awful. he has a role that's not suited for him, and that role is as a main focus. that's killing us.
couldn't agree more. trading young talent for space at this point is wrong. we're already years away from seeing postseason as it is.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:15 PM   #77 (permalink)
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when he's on he isn't just chucking from distance. when he's on he's in that mode where his hands catch the ball high, set and release without ever coming below his shoulders. he's attacking from the ft line and elbow, he's popping off mid-range shots, and when the d plays him close he's going in to the lane and hitting floaters and baby hooks. when he's doing that he's a devastating offensive player. but when he's not doing that he's awful, and that has been more often the case. but i still believe that putting him on a solid all-around team would let him do his thing without worrying about all the many things he's shitty at. and often that's what you get for a $10 mil big man. none of them are complete or they would be max guys.

but that offensive dominance is so tantalizing that i can't let it go. call me whatever you want for hoping that he can deliver that piece, but we're locked in and going to get 25 cents on the dollar if we try to move him, so i see no point in it.

and i don't believe the doom and gloom about the worst point in franchise history. he's just not that awful. he has a role that's not suited for him, and that role is as a main focus. that's killing us.
You could have easily said the same thing about guys like Vince... TJ... Mike James... CV.... Hedo (more for his passing than his scoring I guess)... but the fact of the matter is that sometimes you just have to know when to cut your losses and do some "addition by subtraction".

It's just unfair to put so much additional pressure on guys like Reggie and Amir who have to shoulder MUCH more of the load just to make Bargs look good.

If Bargs was "delivering" and scoring 25-30 pts every other game you MIGHT be able to discuss the merits of keeping him.... but now? Teams have figured him out.. plain & simple. Most times they'll take away his drive and force him to shoot the ball. He can't pass. He can't rebound. He can't play D.... so when he's NOT "on" he's a liability on the floor that can be exploited at any given time.

It's demoralizing watching him play.... I can only imagine what it must be like to be one of his teammates.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:16 PM   #78 (permalink)
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i disagree.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:20 PM   #79 (permalink)
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that same thing can be said about all of the raptors, really.
when Jose isnt on, he's a liability... when Weems or DD are chucking bricks, they're a liability... when Barbosa is playing recklessly, he's a liability.... when Reggie isnt rebounding, he's a liability.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:21 PM   #80 (permalink)
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i disagree.
With what exactly?

I just don't see a point in keeping a guy like Bargs who just doesn't want to try.... sets a horrible example for the rest of the team. So he may blow up for 28 pts once every 7 or 8 games... big deal. If you give Sonny Weems 18-20 shots/gm I'm sure that he avgs 20pts/gm too.

I've seen WAY more from Ed Davis in ONE year than I have from Bargs in five.

That in itself in pretty sad.
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