Kleiza needs to leave Toronto. - Page 6

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View Poll Results: Where should Kleiza be?
Stay in Toronto 7 31.82%
Go elsewhere 5 22.73%
Give him more time in Toronto, then maybe trade him 10 45.45%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-04-2010, 07:21 PM   #101 (permalink)
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i hate arguing stats but you have forced me to.
its so funny how you turn derozan's 3.6 rebs a game into 3, yet Kleiza's 3.7 is magically upped to 4.
theres a reason Kleiza plays behind Derozan in the depth chart, and since you love talking stats heres some more for you:
Derozan plays 6 more minutes than Kleiza, and takes the exact same shots per game! not to mention DD has a better shooting percentage, and gets the the free throw line 3 more times per game... and how is it that kleiza plays 6 minutes less than DD yet averages more turnovers??? explain those stats?
seems to me like kleiza is a chucking turnover machine when compared to Derozan. but thats just stats right?
I don't like mentioning stats too much either, but I only brought up a comparison considering you initially mentioned it (how impressed by Derozan's stats lol). Apologize for the .3 error in two stats. I think I accidentally saw Def Rebounds and not total. Whatever tiny issue.

This thread is not about Derozan so after this piece I'm done with him. A lot of you guys think he is the future. I disagree and a lot of young guys who show potential ultimately fail. I think Derozan will never be a starter on a good team. His stats are reflective of playing on a bad team and getting a ton of minutes. Again, in comparison to Kleiza, he's playing 7 more minutes a game. That's a little over a half a quarter, not big/not small. I think a more important point is that Derozan is playing consistent minutes. He's only played one game below 20 minutes all season and has played 8 games with over 30 minutes. Kleiza on the other hand has played 5 games below 20 minutes and only 3 above 30 minutes. Furthermore, Derozan is not getting bench when he plays like poop. So the management is playing the "development" card on him. It is what it is. Just another reason why Kleiza doesn't fit here, especially because Weems/Derozan play decently together.

As I wrote earlier, I'm familiar with Kleiza's game beyond what he has done on the Raptors and Nuggets. A lot of Lithuanians would agree that Kleiza is a player who needs consistent minutes. Even on the national team, their is a huge discrepancy in efficiency when he barely plays. He doesn't fit into the mold of playing 13 minutes against Philly one night and then 30 minutes against Boston the next game. Put him on a team where this is a offensive system (where the ball moves) and have him play 20 minutes consistently off the bench. Then you will get his worth. Averaging similar numbers on the Raptors as on the Nuggets, a solid playoff contender in the deep West, is pathetic.

Linas Kleiza 2010-11 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
DeMar DeRozan 2010-11 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:19 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Stats:facepalm:

I would just love to see Kleiza getting more baskets in the paint and try to do his stuff. I hate watching him standing in the corner for no reason. If only Triano would come up with something. . . That's not going to happen
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Old 12-05-2010, 11:24 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Ok, so what is the plan to get a role player going? Seriously. A role player. How would you use him?
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Old 12-05-2010, 12:02 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Ok, so what is the plan to get a role player going? Seriously. A role player. How would you use him?
In terms of Kleiza, he needs to be on a team where there is a lot of ball movement... a lot of picks/screens, where the ball just doesn't stay in the PGs hands. In Toronto there's not much of that... usually a pick and roll game between Calderon and Bargnani. Kleiza usually floats aimlessly on the perimeter. Other than that it's 1-on-1 basketball. When a playmaker like Sonny/Demar/Jose puts their head down and attack the basket they rarely pass to an open perimeter player... where Kleiza stays open.

Kleiza wasn't a top 5 player in Europe because of lack of competition. Rather because the offensive system where everyone shares the ball.

Kleiza struggles to create his own shot, but on a team where there are picks set for him then he would be more efficient. The one thing Toronto does well is set him up in the post when there's potential to take advantage of a smaller player. However, he rarely gets layups, whereas a team defined by screens get players more frequently open under the basket.
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Old 12-05-2010, 07:17 PM   #105 (permalink)
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In terms of Kleiza, he needs to be on a team where there is a lot of ball movement... a lot of picks/screens, where the ball just doesn't stay in the PGs hands. In Toronto there's not much of that... usually a pick and roll game between Calderon and Bargnani. Kleiza usually floats aimlessly on the perimeter. Other than that it's 1-on-1 basketball. When a playmaker like Sonny/Demar/Jose puts their head down and attack the basket they rarely pass to an open perimeter player... where Kleiza stays open.

Kleiza wasn't a top 5 player in Europe because of lack of competition. Rather because the offensive system where everyone shares the ball.

Kleiza struggles to create his own shot, but on a team where there are picks set for him then he would be more efficient. The one thing Toronto does well is set him up in the post when there's potential to take advantage of a smaller player. However, he rarely gets layups, whereas a team defined by screens get players more frequently open under the basket.
I'm starting to hate this team. I tought this will be a team were the ball will be pushed around and everyone will get a chance. But Bargnani's all the time shooting is killing me. I'd rather give all the balsl to Kleiza in the paint and look what he will try to do there instead and he will work his ass off. And now I'm thinking giving up Toronto and not looking anymore of it's game, cause it's not franchise, it's one man game.
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Old 12-05-2010, 07:39 PM   #106 (permalink)
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I'm starting to hate this team. I tought this will be a team were the ball will be pushed around and everyone will get a chance. But Bargnani's all the time shooting is killing me. I'd rather give all the balsl to Kleiza in the paint and look what he will try to do there instead and he will work his ass off. And now I'm thinking giving up Toronto and not looking anymore of it's game, cause it's not franchise, it's one man game.

One man game?

We have 5 players averaging double digits. Weems gets alot of shots, Barbosa gets alot of shots, Jose could get alot of shots but chooses not too, Bayless since coming here has been given an opportunity to shoot and drive the ball. Derozan ppg has gone up considerably this season.

So let's review, Bosh took about 20 shots per game last season, he's gone and Bargnani is averaging 2.7 more shots per game? Where are the other shots going....to everyone else.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:08 PM   #107 (permalink)
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I think zxcvbn193 is trying to say that's it a one show... meaning the Raptors play 1-on-1 basketball and there's no movement.

Aside the pick & roll with Bargnani/Calderon our offense is really stagnant. You mention Weems & Derozan (even Calderon & Bayless), well those guys usually create shots for themselves. No one is passing to them after setting them-up. It's not bad, but makes it tougher on the team to score IMO.

Look how beautifully the Knicks swing the ball around the perimeter today. They're not even a good passing team, but they moved the ball and played great. Considering the Raptors have so many "Europeans" on the team, you'd assume there would be more ball movement... but there isn't. A major reason why Kleiza is ineffective here. Guys that score do so off their own play-making and that's not Kleiza's game.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:11 PM   #108 (permalink)
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I think zxcvbn193 is trying to say that's it a one show... meaning the Raptors play 1-on-1 basketball and there's no movement.

Aside the pick & roll with Bargnani/Calderon our offense is really stagnant. You mention Weems & Derozan (even Calderon & Bayless), well those guys usually create shots for themselves. No one is passing to them after setting them-up. It's not bad, but makes it tougher on the team to score IMO.

Look how beautifully the Knicks swing the ball around the perimeter today. They're not even a good passing team, but they moved the ball and played great. Considering the Raptors have so many "Europeans" on the team, you'd assume there would be more ball movement... but there isn't. A major reason why Kleiza is ineffective here. Guys that score do so off their own play-making and that's not Kleiza's game.
going into this game they had won 6 of 8 and they were moving the ball very well. it's one game.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:44 AM   #109 (permalink)
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they are moving crap, the fact mostly our guards score is fast break score.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:51 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Well at least his first game as a Raptor was legit... although preseason:



Some other highlights:




13 pts in 3rd quarter
Raptors vs Cleveland..." target="_blank">YouTube - NBA Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland...

Decent plays that seem like forever ago.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:50 AM   #111 (permalink)
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First preseason game was solid. It was just after world championship and he still had the same game shape and confidence. He was good then the season started, but he missed few games because of injury, Weems had his chance and played well. Linas returned as a bench player, played worse than before, lost his confidence and now looks awful.

Linas can't create, he is a finisher but not a creator. Thats why he looks like a turnover machine. he's not a shooter either. His range is not his strong side. Someone said he must know his place and shoot 3pointers. So, why Raptors bought him? They could get other Olympiako, P. Vasilopoulos, he is better shooter and defender. Or the same Jasaitis from Lithuania NT. He is much better on ball defender, 6'8 body, he is a shooter and much cheaper. Perfect players if you need a shooter for 10 minutes a game.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:20 AM   #112 (permalink)
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linas is probably our best post player. that says a lot right there.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:33 AM   #113 (permalink)
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First preseason game was solid. It was just after world championship and he still had the same game shape and confidence. He was good then the season started, but he missed few games because of injury, Weems had his chance and played well. Linas returned as a bench player, played worse than before, lost his confidence and now looks awful.

Linas can't create, he is a finisher but not a creator. Thats why he looks like a turnover machine. he's not a shooter either. His range is not his strong side. Someone said he must know his place and shoot 3pointers. So, why Raptors bought him? They could get other Olympiako, P. Vasilopoulos, he is better shooter and defender. Or the same Jasaitis from Lithuania NT. He is much better on ball defender, 6'8 body, he is a shooter and much cheaper. Perfect players if you need a shooter for 10 minutes a game.
I always thought Jasaitis could've been a fringe NBA player. Imagine him being a college player in the USA. He would've been a beast. 6"8 with decent quickness and a 3 point machine.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:34 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Linas>Weems and Demar
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:54 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Jasaitis is to soft for NBA, but he's deadly from 3pt range.

Kleiza just needs to get his confidence back find his place on the court and he will be just fine, it's not like there are any superstars on this team. If he can't concentrate on his game and get a starting role on a team like Raptors i don't see why he went back to NBA in the first place.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:18 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Jasaitis is to soft for NBA, but he's deadly from 3pt range.

Kleiza just needs to get his confidence back find his place on the court and he will be just fine, it's not like there are any superstars on this team. If he can't concentrate on his game and get a starting role on a team like Raptors i don't see why he went back to NBA in the first place.
I don't think Kleiza is lacking confidence. He took like 12 shoots in 16 minutes in the blowout against Indiana.

It's just a matter of him getting minutes. Triano is being a stubborn jacka$$ who won't make any changes to the starting lineup. It literally takes an injury for him to really do it (Kleiza's achilles and Evan's broken leg). I'm not saying Kleiza will be good, but this is the ideal opportunity to give him a chance. Weem's has been playing too selfish and hasn't even produced.

Kleiza is a player that needs to be on the court and be engaged. Don't expect anything from him when he plays 16 minutes. Might as well not play him at all.

Jasaitis is too old now but a lot of European players that are "soft" can be decent in the NBA if they play as SF/SG. Soft is more relevant for bigs.
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:47 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Triano should show some respect to Kleiza. I mean commentators, fans like him, and why shouldn't they? Kleiza scored 41pts in Denver once, Last season in He and Josh CHildress dominated the court in Europe. The guy led Lithuania into the third place and mostly would agree that Lithuania deserved second place, they played better. Only lost to USA. What player needs to do more to earn his spot? And now he is the last coming of the bench? Davis, Barbosa, Bayless, they step into the game even faster. I can even tell how much Will Kleiza play tonight against NY. 2 last minutes of the first quarter, 5 minutes in the second, 2 minutes again in the third and maybe 5 again in the last. . . Everybody knows Triano's rotation. . .
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:25 AM   #118 (permalink)
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1 of 4 FT's against NY, he had his chance, maybe forced his shot to prove something to triano, and again... poor game.

If we talking about Jasaitis, I think he is perfect 11-12th man. Decent defense, Foot Movement and range. And what is soft? Maybe Jeffries looks soft too, but he was all around defensive beast. The same Anthony Randolph, he is PF with Naomi Kembel's figure Jasaitis - Poor man's Batum.
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:11 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Interesting to see how Kleiza will play against his former team tonight... in the event he actually does play over 15 minutes. Sonny Weems too, although Weems was never on the court for them like Kleiza.

Hope Carmelo plays. That would be unfortunate for Kleiza but Melo's a beast.

Did you guys know that Kleiza scored 41 points for the Nuggets once? LOL
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:07 PM   #120 (permalink)
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5th nugget to score 40+? Nice
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