World Soccer Thread - Page 71
Old 04-11-2009, 11:53 PM   #1401 (permalink)
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Why do you keep saying you need to beat one of the top english teams to be the best in the world. How can you be so close minded. Liverpool tied twice against Atletico this year. Manchester couldnt score one goal in two games against Villareal. Using your logic thats mean they are equally good.

Chelsea:

Chelsea Girondins 4 - 0
CFR Cluj Chelsea 0 - 0
Chelsea Roma 1 - 0
Roma Chelsea 3 - 1
Girondins Chelsea 1 - 1
Chelsea CFR Cluj 2 - 1

1-0 Chelsea Juventus 2-2
Beat 3-1 Liverpool

Manchester:

Manchester U. Villarreal 0 - 0
AaB Aalborg Manchester U 0 - 3
Manchester U. Celtic G. 3 - 0
Celtic G. Manchester U. 1 - 1
Villarreal Manchester U. 0 - 0
Manchester U AaB Aalborg 2 - 2

0-0 Inter Manchester U. 2-0
Tied 2-2 at home against Porto

Barcelona Sporting Port 3 - 1
Shakhtar D Barcelona 1 - 2
Basilea Barcelona 0 - 5
Barcelona Basilea 1 - 1
Sporting Port Barcelona 2 - 5
Barcelona Shakhtar D 2 - 3

1-1 O. Lyon Barcelona 5-2
Bear 4-0 Bayern.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:21 AM   #1402 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
I am not basing any of my opinions on one game (if you want to see who does... take a look @ Cladius' post above). Manchester United won the champions league last year... the championship was played between 2 english teams. Man U also won the EPL. This year... Manchester United is back in the Quarters... and they have the reigning world player of the year on their team.

I am not a Barcelona hater at all, I hate Man U and C.Ronaldo so much more (for beating Chelsea and English so much ). But Barcelona is not the best team in the world until they beat one of the top 3 English teams.

Barcelona... when they LOST (they LOST).. last year to Man U.. had your beloved Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol... everyone. Unless you think the addition of Dani Alves makes them a whole new team (which no one has mentioned)... I don't know how you consider them the best in the world when they haven't beaten any of England's top 3.

By the way.. Messi won't get player of the year if Man.U wins the premier league and champs league again.
are we talking about Barcelona of this year or last year. Barca lost last year but they were a different team. Not roster wise but Coaching and changing the culture of the team. They needed a fresh start and they are playing top notch soccer this season. also Barca were very injury plagued last season. You keep talking about last season (last season was LAST SEASON). I understand why you keep bringing it up since it is a similar team roster wise but on the pitch they play as a different team than last season.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:23 AM   #1403 (permalink)
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also i think messi will still get world player of the year even if barca dont win the champions league since there is no other qualified candidate to win it. Nobody else has come close to him and ronaldo wont win it by the looks of it since he isnt having a world player of the year type season.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:41 AM   #1404 (permalink)
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Why do I compare everyone to English teams Belsius? ... because they had both teams in the champs league final. And they have 4 left in the top 8... that's ALL... i repeat ALL of the top 4 teams in the EPL. 4/4... 100%... who else should I compare them to?

So you have 1 spanish team in... and they're doing extremely well... and you have 4 EPL teams left (including both the champs and the runner's up). And always playing with one of the best wingers in the world (Ronaldinho or Messi) people think Iniesta/Xavi are the best center mid pair in the world? ... I really really hope they lose now.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:59 AM   #1405 (permalink)
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Quote:
Why do you keep saying you need to beat one of the top english teams to be the best in the world. How can you be so close minded. Liverpool tied twice against Atletico this year. Manchester couldnt score one goal in two games against Villareal. Using your logic thats mean they are equally good.

Chelsea:

Chelsea Girondins 4 - 0
CFR Cluj Chelsea 0 - 0
Chelsea Roma 1 - 0
Roma Chelsea 3 - 1
Girondins Chelsea 1 - 1
Chelsea CFR Cluj 2 - 1

1-0 Chelsea Juventus 2-2
Beat 3-1 Liverpool

Manchester:

Manchester U. Villarreal 0 - 0
AaB Aalborg Manchester U 0 - 3
Manchester U. Celtic G. 3 - 0
Celtic G. Manchester U. 1 - 1
Villarreal Manchester U. 0 - 0
Manchester U AaB Aalborg 2 - 2

0-0 Inter Manchester U. 2-0
Tied 2-2 at home against Porto

Barcelona Sporting Port 3 - 1
Shakhtar D Barcelona 1 - 2
Basilea Barcelona 0 - 5
Barcelona Basilea 1 - 1
Sporting Port Barcelona 2 - 5
Barcelona Shakhtar D 2 - 3

1-1 O. Lyon Barcelona 5-2
Bear 4-0 Bayern.
I wonder in what league does Villareal play....You say you need to beat those teams to be the best, yet those teams havent been able to beat teams that are currently not in the Top 4 of la liga. Awesome logic.

I give up, again what you are saying doesnt have any sense at all. You are either crazy or you simply havent watch enough soccer. I hope its the first one.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:51 AM   #1406 (permalink)
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LOL Sorry I meant to say Villareal as well. Ok... If 3 spanish teams were in the top 4 last year... and 4 of 8 spanish teams were left this year.. you can make your case. BUT IT IS NOT SO... sorry.

Man U are the current champs... Chelsea are the current runner's up. You can say what you want... but until Barcelona beats one of them.. there's nothing to say.

YOUR logic is ... look who beat who. My logic is... look who WON last year... and look who beat barcelona. They are still in the tournament! Also YOUR logic that Iniesta/Xavi are the heart of this team even though they lost to Man U last year... with the exact same team.. makes no sense. It's like saying Fisher and Ariza are the best PG/SF combination in the league.. I mean heck look @ their record. I mean it has nothing to do with playing with other all-stars?

Chelsea vs. Barcelona. One of us will see...
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:22 AM   #1407 (permalink)
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As a Chelsea fan I want them to beat Barca but I even know they are the best team in the world right now

But does that mean they'll win

remember Liverpool was on top of the world beating Man U and winning a ton of games the past month but the lost to Chelsea 4-1 at home

still Barca are favorites to beat Chelsea
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:13 AM   #1408 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
LOL Sorry I meant to say Villareal as well. Ok... If 3 spanish teams were in the top 4 last year... and 4 of 8 spanish teams were left this year.. you can make your case. BUT IT IS NOT SO... sorry.

Man U are the current champs... Chelsea are the current runner's up. You can say what you want... but until Barcelona beats one of them.. there's nothing to say.

YOUR logic is ... look who beat who. My logic is... look who WON last year... and look who beat barcelona. They are still in the tournament! Also YOUR logic that Iniesta/Xavi are the heart of this team even though they lost to Man U last year... with the exact same team.. makes no sense. It's like saying Fisher and Ariza are the best PG/SF combination in the league.. I mean heck look @ their record. I mean it has nothing to do with playing with other all-stars?

Chelsea vs. Barcelona. One of us will see...
Dude, you really are something. I dont care who wins anything, the team that has played the best soccer constantly this year is Barcelona without a doubt. The best player in that team is Messi, the two principal players that make it work like that are Xavi and Iniesta, just like in the national team that has a record of 32 games without losing. You can ask any true soccer follower or listen to any soccer expert on TV/Internet say that. Objetive facts. Chelsea is a good team that can beat Barcelona just like a mediocre team like Porto may beat Man U. There are so many factors that influence winning a round like luck, having a bad day, etc... that it wouldnt proof anything. You cant be that simplistic.
And thats my last statement. Im off this ridiculous conversation.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:31 AM   #1409 (permalink)
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Leicester City Football Club kicks all your pansy arse money bought championship teams anyways so pi$$$$ off! ...lol...ok maybe not exactly but we did give chelsea our all in a 4-3 loss (cup game) last season

Sure i could support Villa as i was born in Leicester (and Birmingham is not too far away) but kiss off... I'm supporting my hometown team no matter what division we are in.

Do people only look at the most famous or most rich club when deciding who they want to support? Just curios? Ya ya, i know their games are shown on tv more often so thats a reason...but man theres a shitload of talent on other teams who are not so blessed with billion dollar owners.

Not sure if any of you take teh time to watch and English Championship games but they are awesome to watch. Fantastic entertainment as well as some Scottish Premier League games.

I'm a true footy fan but i'm tired of people always talking about liverpool this, united that, chelsea... barcelona....Real, blah blah blah. You're all in the same league. Owned by people with too much money that buy players for ridiculous prices and then go on to complain that the other has infinite wealth and spends more then they do/did (fergie and benetiz to name a few). This whole money thing is ridiculous and is destroying the foundations of what english football is, what spanish football is and so on..

Even our teams owner (Milan Mandaric who previously owned Portsmouth in their glory years are few years ago) has at least 75 million pound net worth or so which entitles him to put up quite a bit of money that other teams in our league can't. I'm all for a spending cap for all leagues around the world.

You want talent, let's see you train it locally and KEEP it locally. Then, lets have these discussions on whose better. Getting tired of english football, spanish football what have you being tainted by too many international players and not enough homegrown talent.

How can you call it a local derby match between say man city and united when more then 50% of the players are foreign. How can you call it a local derby between Chelsea and Arsenal when theres like 5 english players (yes, go check the rosters out) starting?

I want football to go back to how it should be. Maybe then you will see the scunthorpes and Luton towns of the world having a chance to make it to the best divisions..
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:44 AM   #1410 (permalink)
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Absolutely true, but it is an Utopy. I wish there was a salary cap in every sport. I have always found ironic that the american system of sports is the most comunist of them all. All of the teams have more or less the same money, the worst teams get the best players from the draft, theres a limit on how much money one could spend on a player, etc...

The best thing was in the Real Vs Liverpool game. There were twice as much spanish players in Liverpool than in Real.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:46 AM   #1411 (permalink)
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Good post Jatt and I agree with your assessment, however, it can be applied to all sports really, and North American leagues are being affected by international talent right now.

And I agree with your Division 1 assessments and even League 2 assessments. I've always had a place in my heart for Coventry because I had a best friend who was a long time supporter of the squad. His heart was broken when they were demoted in the 1990s. We've lost touch but I still support them in honour of them. Alson, James Beattie is a guy I've been following for more than a few years.

Anyways, just to kind of defend myself here, I never arbitrarily chose Arsenal b/c of the money. I grew up an AC Milan fan for the longest time, because I cheered for Boban (Cro. midfielder). Then, one day in 1995 I was home for Soccer Saturday on TSN, I saw Bergkamp play as they were showing their highlight package. Naturally, I waited for more and more of his highlights (b/f youtube) and by proxy I began supporting the team.

But really jatt, it's sadly how the world is run right now. Yes, it be great if Oldham, QPR and Bristol could make it to the EPL and actually have a chance, but then how many teams have actually won the EPL crown? 3? 4? Hell, a team I support Hajduk Split has NO CHANCE in European competitions because they run up against big budget teams. It sucks b/c I know they have no chance of winning a UEFA cup. A cap would go a long way to "fixing" the problems of footy in Europe, but that would take co-operation amongst all the leagues and all the divisions. Do you really think that'll ever happen?

Really, the only way, and this is sad, that surprises will happen is if a team has a real good scouting team and is able to amass cheap talent that is able to surprise teams.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:51 AM   #1412 (permalink)
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since I lived in Brixton, visit and my Uncle lives there
I support Chelsea b/c Stamford Bridge is 2 miles away
but Im not a die hard fan like I am for Toronto teams

I agree there should be more local talent
Arsenal has what, 2 Englishmen on their team
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:53 AM   #1413 (permalink)
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Arsenal has Walcott. That is all I believe.

The rest: Russian, Togo, France, Spain, Croatia, Mexico, Holland etc.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:05 AM   #1414 (permalink)
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I was a Real Fan since I was born, but when I became 14/15 and I begun understanding how the sports world worked (and really, the world itself) I starting hating soccer and every sport. Loved playing it, but couldnt stand the pro level. I kept playing basketball and soccer and only kept followed Estudiantes, the basketball team in Madrid who used to personificate everything good about sports.
Then Zidane come to Real and fell in love with watching the game again and I resignated to the fact that sports are what they are and sometimes you just need to accept that you cant change it and enjoy life.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:13 AM   #1415 (permalink)
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oh yeah
I like Hertha Berlin
b/c of living there and visting,also and its a good city

can I have 2 favorite teams?
there is also TFC
so I have 3

The Hertha side of me says salary cap
but the Chelsea side says Abramovic
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:10 PM   #1416 (permalink)
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that is why in the modern game.. It's almost impossible to be a fan of a team, or hate a player... because different stars are bought and sold again and again for different teams.

But when you follow club and international.. I love Wayne Rooney... but he plays for Man. United.. and I hate deco.. but he plays for Chelsea. So it's difficult to follow in betweens because some of your most hated international players could be playing for your favourite club team etc.

But watching the coca-cola league 3 of the EPL is like watching the D-league NBA... why would you want to? If I want to watch mediocre soccer.. I can atleast cheer for TFC lol.

If Chelsea had Beckham, Juninho, Al jaber (retired), Adu, Robinho... [alot of my fav. players] how could I not cheer for them?
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:48 PM   #1417 (permalink)
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There is no coca cola league 3 division but i know what you are trying to say. Sure when you get down to the Coca Cola league 2 or the Blue Square divisions the football is more semi-pro ish but even then it can be exciting to watch if you love to watch football. Heck, i enjoyed watching my bro play in OYSL.

Coca cola championship and league 1 games are actually very entertaining because you dont get all the star BS shit that you see in the premier league games. You get to see more local trained players who get on with the game instead of all the time wasting and diving. Players bust their asses because they have goals to play in the premiership.

Sure i love a lot of the players you listed and sure every now and then it would be cool to see players like that play together but its a gifted 3 or 4 teams who are loaded that keep winning the league every year. United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal...gee i wonder who might win this year? 4 out of the 20 teams have a legitimate chance. So the other 80% are just there for the heck of it.

I know i'm living in a fantasy world but its supposed to be played that way. SPorts in europe is differnt then how it is here. Our country is huge so its hard to find local talent for a team in say winnepeg vs sarnia.

But in football mad countries liek England, scotland, spain, italy there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much home grown talent that they should be able to field a local team and it be very entertaining.

I think poeple are just too spoiled these days for entertainment. They need the best NOW and HAVE to have it NOW or its too boring. come on!!!

Anyways, i think the piss just evaporated from my corn flakes this morning lol
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:22 PM   #1418 (permalink)
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Nice rants.

The talent in every soccer country should be enough to make pretty decent teams.

Off the top of my head:

Barcelona: Xavi, Cesq, Pique, Puyol, Bojan, Iniesta, Reina, De la Peņa, Valdes.

Madrid: Torres, Raul, Guti, Casillas, De la Red, Miguel Torres, Javi Garcia.

I was just checking both Real and Barcelona have each 10 spaniards in their team. Not bad. 6 of each start or play frecuently. Thats more than I thought.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:49 PM   #1419 (permalink)
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we can dream bel...we can dream haha.

I had to let it off my chest...i'll be fine now

Back to the same old EPL.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #1420 (permalink)
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hey Bmat, there are reports that Man City are willing to offer €39 million for iniesta. What do you have to say about that?
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