World Soccer Thread - Page 443
Old 09-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #8841 (permalink)
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wow, city annihilating man utd. Moyes really struggling.

commentator who really annoys from bbc just said that utd shouldn't have bought fellaini, they should've bought ozil. Fellaini is too similar too carrick. Firstly, they should've bought fellaini AND ozil! and secondly fellaini is NOTHING like carrick!

carrick and fellaini is a perfect middle 2. One is all physical and energetic, the other picks a pass. Ozil, rooney, welbeck would've been great behind van persie.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #8842 (permalink)
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Yeah - in 1 game yes, and that was the first game. But you're acting like there's zero chemistry on that squad. 4-3 aggregate. But hey yes, that is getting destroyed.

The biggest issue with Mou's reign at Real (which you both have not mentioned) besides his arrogance/pride in the last season (which cost the squad the Copa del Rey) was rotations. Mou was absolutely horrible at rotating the squad. That's why near the end of the season the starting XI would be gassed and then guys filling in wouldn't have the necessary experience/fitness/game time to match the starters' level of play.
nope, not zero chemistry, more like very inconsistent chemistry. And more of an issue at city than real. At times it can be minus chemistry at teams like that! worse than zero. Again, more the case at city, when egos take over. The tevez stuff, balotelli as well.

going back to dortmund v real, all i can do is repeat myself. Dortmund were by far the better side for 3 halves out of 4. in germany it was a footballing lesson and should've been more than 4-1. After 175 mins of the 180, the agg score was 4-1, and should've been A LOT more than that.

i haven't mentioned mourinho's rotations because i don't follow real closely enough to know stuff like that. I didn't even read that to be honest. I did read that he was having man-management issues, little arguments and falling out with people, that's a huge problem for chemistry. Dortmund's players absolutely adore klopp, by all accounts, he's probably the best man-manager in the game.

what you can tell from only watching a few champs league games tho, is that dortmund have a fantastic tactical system, all the players play for each other and there are basically no weaknesses there. Not saying they're perfect, they're beatable, by another good side (like napoli,) but they make the most of what they've got. And the opposite is true of real and city in the past, certainly in europe.
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:27 PM   #8843 (permalink)
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wow, city annihilating man utd
That's a shame
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #8844 (permalink)
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nope, not zero chemistry, more like very inconsistent chemistry. And more of an issue at city than real. At times it can be minus chemistry at teams like that! worse than zero. Again, more the case at city, when egos take over. The tevez stuff, balotelli as well.

going back to dortmund v real, all i can do is repeat myself. Dortmund were by far the better side for 3 halves out of 4. in germany it was a footballing lesson and should've been more than 4-1. After 175 mins of the 180, the agg score was 4-1, and should've been A LOT more than that.

i haven't mentioned mourinho's rotations because i don't follow real closely enough to know stuff like that. I didn't even read that to be honest. I did read that he was having man-management issues, little arguments and falling out with people, that's a huge problem for chemistry. Dortmund's players absolutely adore klopp, by all accounts, he's probably the best man-manager in the game.

what you can tell from only watching a few champs league games tho, is that dortmund have a fantastic tactical system, all the players play for each other and there are basically no weaknesses there. Not saying they're perfect, they're beatable, by another good side (like napoli,) but they make the most of what they've got. And the opposite is true of real and city in the past, certainly in europe.
Not really inconsistent chemistry when a group of players produce god-like statistics, win a trophy a year, start most if not all games together and compete at the highest club level in the world (3 straight UCL semis - losing by the slimmest of margins in each).

You do know that Real had a bunch more chances in the 2nd half? 1 more goal and Dortmund would've gone home and not Real. They barely made it to the tie with 2 MANU like goals against Malaga. Poor Malaga. Real lost against another giant.

Well it's true. He loved his starting XI which is good but overplayed them. Mou was horrid in his last season.

Don't ever compare City and Real. Real didn't just pop out of nowhere. City can't even make it past the group stages. You say Real don't have any of what Dortmund have (as you've described) yet you've on record haven't recognized the work that Sami and Angel have done and do but praise offense hoping that Ozil, Isco, Bale, CR7 and Benz could all start together.
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #8845 (permalink)
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That's a shame
Not really. ManU have depended on SAF for so long and they're being figured out now.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:29 PM   #8846 (permalink)
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #8847 (permalink)
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Not really. ManU have depended on SAF for so long and they're being figured out now.
that's such an oversimplified way of looking at it.

Fact is whenever there is a manager change there's always going to be a transition period where the team isn't going to be firing on all cylinders. They're at a crossroads.

SAF built the team he wanted to build, but obviously the players were a massive reason why they were such a strong team. You're making it sound like the players they have now aren't as capable when they are. It's just that it's never easy to just change strategies, gameplans, etc. and expect everything to go smoothly.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:18 PM   #8848 (permalink)
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spurs and arsenal at the top of the table, separated by 1 GD.

spurs having scored 5, conceded 1

arsenal having scored 11, conceded 6

spurs solid defensively, struggling to score a bit

arsenal solid offensively, struggling with their defence

now, once spurs' two 30 million euro goal scorers gel with the team and start kicking them in for fun with all the oportunities created by wonder kid eriksen, AND our defence holds strong and stronger once capoue comes back....?

spurs going for the title this year, baby
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:19 PM   #8849 (permalink)
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oh good god. I'm out.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:31 AM   #8850 (permalink)
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that's such an oversimplified way of looking at it.

Fact is whenever there is a manager change there's always going to be a transition period where the team isn't going to be firing on all cylinders. They're at a crossroads.

SAF built the team he wanted to build, but obviously the players were a massive reason why they were such a strong team. You're making it sound like the players they have now aren't as capable when they are. It's just that it's never easy to just change strategies, gameplans, etc. and expect everything to go smoothly.
Yes and no. I mean when I look at players on teams I like to have fun posing the question, would they start on this team or that team, etc. and really - who from ManU's XI would start at Real or Bayern or Barca or even Juventus? As a team they worked well together yes, but there's no denying that SAF was a huge part of that.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:56 AM   #8851 (permalink)
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Yes and no. I mean when I look at players on teams I like to have fun posing the question, would they start on this team or that team, etc. and really - who from ManU's XI would start at Real or Bayern or Barca or even Juventus? As a team they worked well together yes, but there's no denying that SAF was a huge part of that.
Well apart from barca van persie would start on all those teams. But what you say is true for the rest of the team. If Rooney refinds and keeps his form then maybe him as well.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:19 AM   #8852 (permalink)
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Not really inconsistent chemistry when a group of players produce god-like statistics, win a trophy a year, start most if not all games together and compete at the highest club level in the world (3 straight UCL semis - losing by the slimmest of margins in each).

You do know that Real had a bunch more chances in the 2nd half? 1 more goal and Dortmund would've gone home and not Real. They barely made it to the tie with 2 MANU like goals against Malaga. Poor Malaga. Real lost against another giant.

Well it's true. He loved his starting XI which is good but overplayed them. Mou was horrid in his last season.

Don't ever compare City and Real. Real didn't just pop out of nowhere. City can't even make it past the group stages. You say Real don't have any of what Dortmund have (as you've described) yet you've on record haven't recognized the work that Sami and Angel have done and do but praise offense hoping that Ozil, Isco, Bale, CR7 and Benz could all start together.
Yeah dortmund were lucky against malaga for sure. Those were their only poor performances in the tournament.

We've gone back and forth on the real chemistry thing a few times now. I'm not massively impressed by real doing well in a fairly weak spanish league (although it's getting stronger again, coincidentally as mourinho started to struggle a bit with real,) but getting to CL semis every year is impressive. I did say a number of times that city were different to real and it was more them than real I was referring to. However, have to repeat again, when a weaker team beats a stronger team, you have to look at the reasons. You can talk about it getting close near the end of the tie but the first leg could've quite easily been 5 or 6-1, even 5 or 6-0. It was domination in the same way you beat gala the other night.

i'm not quite sure what your last point means. I haven't said real don't have ANY of what dortmund have, i've just said dortmund obviously have superior tactics and chemistry because they've beaten a (depending on your opinion,) slightly or very much stronger team in terms of talent.

I don't want to fall out about this, I bow to your superior knowledge of real. I'm more interested in the over-achievement of dortmund than the debateable under-achievement of city or real.

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Old 09-23-2013, 08:41 AM   #8853 (permalink)
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Well apart from barca van persie would start on all those teams. But what you say is true for the rest of the team. If Rooney refinds and keeps his form then maybe him as well.
Exactly. I think those two it's a maybe. RVP and Rooney can't play in Barca's system. At Real a CF has to be equally adept at passing and at scoring and I think on some days RVP wouldn't start in place of Benz. It's either/or. RVP could probably displace Vucinic, Rooney too. RVP and Rooney are better than Mandzukic.
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:57 AM   #8854 (permalink)
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Yeah dortmund were lucky against malaga for sure. Those were their only poor performances in the tournament.

We've gone back and forth on the real chemistry thing a few times now. I'm not massively impressed by real doing well in a fairly weak spanish league (although it's getting stronger again, coincidentally as mourinho started to struggle a bit with real,) but getting to CL semis every year is impressive. I did say a number of times that city were different to real and it was more them than real I was referring to. However, have to repeat again, when a weaker team beats a stronger team, you have to look at the reasons. You can talk about it getting close near the end of the tie but the first leg could've quite easily been 5 or 6-1, even 5 or 6-0. It was domination in the same way you beat gala the other night.

i'm not quite sure what your last point means. I haven't said real don't have ANY of what dortmund have, i've just said dortmund obviously have superior tactics and chemistry because they've beaten a (depending on your opinion,) slightly or very much stronger team in terms of talent.

I don't want to fall out about this, I bow to your superior knowledge of real. I'm more interested in the over-achievement of dortmund than the debateable under-achievement of city or real.
Wait, I just looked back and you said BVB dominated for 175 minutes. Sorry but that just isn't true. The 2nd half of the first game for sure. However, the first half of the first game was pretty equal and at the Bernabeu Dortmund didn't dominate as you've said.

Fairly weak Spanish league where teams constantly own in Europe (Barca - 6 straight UCL semis, Real 3 straight, Athletic beating ManU, Atletico owning Chelsea, etc). How about the German League where beside Bayern there is no other giant and Dortmund took advantage of that. Dortmund could and can beat Bayern or Barca too. Dortmund's starting lineup is very strong. No it wasn't domination. Real easily could've won 4-0 at the Bernabeu too.

No but you did. You outright said that players at Real don't work for eachother, insulted their chemistry, etc and yet you don't even recognize the importance of two of the players who work harder for others more than any others in the team. Yet again City and Real - Real - global brand - check, history - check, playing at the highest level - check, listed as most valuable sports franchise by Forbes - check, phenomenal youth system - check, meanwhile City...

Meh, it's ok. It'll be funny when Dortmund lose their star striker in the summer for free to their main rivals.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:16 AM   #8855 (permalink)
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Yes and no. I mean when I look at players on teams I like to have fun posing the question, would they start on this team or that team, etc. and really - who from ManU's XI would start at Real or Bayern or Barca or even Juventus? As a team they worked well together yes, but there's no denying that SAF was a huge part of that.
I dunno about you but I'd take Evra or Nani on my team any day. Man U have a strong side but its true its the brilliance of SAFs system that made them great. He got professionals to buy into a system a really hard thing to do and something few coaches have. Anyone taking over that post would struggle.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:58 PM   #8856 (permalink)
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man united and city are in real shambles. looks like london and manchester flipped the spots they're battling for at the top of the table this season
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:31 PM   #8857 (permalink)
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I dunno about you but I'd take Evra or Nani on my team any day. Man U have a strong side but its true its the brilliance of SAFs system that made them great. He got professionals to buy into a system a really hard thing to do and something few coaches have. Anyone taking over that post would struggle.
I wouldn't take either on Real starting or on the squad. Indeed and now he's being missed.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:34 PM   #8858 (permalink)
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fascinating formation/tactics being adopted by liverpool at the moment. Thanks to the versatility of toure, sakho, enrique, henderson, sturridge and suarez, we're swapping between 3-4-3, 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1. Toure swapping between CB and RB, Sakho CB and LB, enrique LB and LM, henderson RM and RB and sturridge and suarez rotating between dropping deep central, out wide or staying up top.

rodgers is a fairly conservative manager, in the mould of his mentor jose, our attacking play still needs work, but he's at least quite forward-thinking in the way he lets players move from their position.

and i'm finding sakho very exciting. After a dodgy first game, he's showing signs of possibly being a dominant defender. He could be a more physically imposing version of agger or ferdinand. hope i'm not speaking too soon.
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Old 09-29-2013, 06:32 PM   #8859 (permalink)
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Suarez brings so much. I don't care if he's a complete twat, he really makes Liverpool a dangerous team. Him and Sturridge look absolutely lethal. I know they've had an easy start to the season compared to years past, but i couldn't be happier with the position they have put themselves in without Suarez. Now that he's back... look out. Moses is a heck of a pickup too... really not sure why he was taken of for Sterling, but whatever. And Toure is quickly becoming one of my favorite players. Absolute BOSS signing. Love him.

Some pretty surprising results in the league this weekend. This season has had a really interesting start.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:28 PM   #8860 (permalink)
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I remember a few Liverpool supporters on here complaining/not being too impressed at K.Toure on a free transfer...
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