World Soccer Thread - Page 424
Old 07-15-2013, 02:02 AM   #8461 (permalink)
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So? and Spain work like beasts to get the ball back when they don't have it.
If you are a team who holds the ball one hour per game than you work like beasts for 30' and it's different then working like beasts both when you're running the ball and trying to getting back. Again, we are talking about two different ways to play soccer and Spain, as for what has been showed, has the most efficient one.

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No they aren't and haven't been for a while. There are always good teams like England and then there are very good to great teams ie. true contenders like Germany. The English team is screwed because of their league's transfer policy and this will likely continue for the foreseeable future. Spain didn't have the same quality, depth and style of play before 2008.
That is?

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Um, I'm just talking about 1 to maybe, maybe 3 positions (CDM/deeplying playmaker and RB). Javi Martinez is already proven and will probably at least play in every game next year in Brazil (at least coming off the bench). Javi Garcia would be on the team as a last resort if lots of injuries happened. Illarramendi would have to shine in Real to make the team. Thiago I also just think his chances decreased given he just went to Bayern. Carvajal will probably overtake Arbeloa at Real. Azpi will be in the running. Montoya will be in the running IF he dethrones Dani Alves. Italy has nice young u21 players but did you see which teams and where the Spain u21s played compared to Italy's? DeGea - starter for MANU, Isco - taking Malaga that far in the UCL, among others. Um, you mention Xabi, Villa and Ramos. I already covered talking about Xabi. Villa? - um, ok? Don't know why you brought him up and if he does make the team next year he'll come off the bench and play utmost 20 minutes max. Ramos - um, don't know why you brought him up given his age and he's the starting CB (alongside Pique) for Spain. He's 2 years younger than the star at the back for Italy - Chiellini.
I brought em up because they are starters who showed to have the proper quality and skills to play for Spain (well, Villa until his injury). If those youngsters will show the same then we can say that Spain will have had its generation gap fixed in the future, but we have to wait a few time. it's normal, so is for each team in each sports. Or we can throw each player who seems promising in the fray as Arnautovic ("next Ibra"), Adu ("next Pelé") or Emre (the Bosphorus' Maradona) who had wonderful U20 careers.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:11 AM   #8462 (permalink)
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If you are a team who holds the ball one hour per game than you work like beasts for 30' and it's different then working like beasts both when you're running the ball and trying to getting back. Again, we are talking about two different ways to play soccer and Spain, as for what has been showed, has the most efficient one.

That is?

I brought em up because they are starters who showed to have the proper quality and skills to play for Spain (well, Villa until his injury). If those youngsters will show the same then we can say that Spain will have had its generation gap fixed in the future, but we have to wait a few time. it's normal, so is for each team in each sports. Or we can throw each player who seems promising in the fray as Arnautovic ("next Ibra"), Adu ("next Pelé") or Emre (the Bosphorus' Maradona) who had wonderful U20 careers.
Okay then why bring it up? All teams have to play 90 minutes/game. Teams also have different styles.

Buy buy buy of course. Even the youngsters in BPL teams - many are foreign.

Yeah but Ramos is what- 27 this year? He still has a lot left in him. Except you're not seeing the difference - they're not just doing this at u20/u21 level. Isco was the best player on that Malaga team in the UCL. DeGea is the starting GK for MANU. The kids from Real Sociedad (Inigo Martinez and Illarramendi) just made Real Sociedad 4th in La Liga. Carvajal was named one of the best fullbacks in Germany. Bayern Munchen just got the steal of the summer in Thiago. Javi Martinez is older but once again - starter at Bayern Munchen. The depth is there.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:35 PM   #8463 (permalink)
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Except they're not a powerhouse and haven't been for a while. England are comparable to Croatia, Serbia, etc. Or, England are like Spain before 2008.
The Serbian and Croatian teams shouldn't be mentioned together. Croatia have been significantly better. If you wish to talk about historically, then yes. Sorry, just need to clarify that.

Just my two cents, the debate between you guys is somewhat funny. The beautiful thing about European National team football is this: You can take the top say, 10 countries in Europe, throw them together and what separates them is minutiae.

Tournaments, crown the winners of tournaments. I don't necessarily put much stock in Euro cups any longer because (in terms of national team) because of money and owners. Never forget that pull. For me judge national team football based off of a overall examination of their programs, so that's why you have to put Spain first and then well it's a debate.

Anyways for fun, if I had to list the top 10 in Europe (Senior teams) I'd say in no specific ranking:

Spain
Italy
Belgium
Netherlands
Germany
Croatia
France
Portugal
England
Bosnia

Full, healthy squads, place them against each other (with no owners telling them to 'rest' or 'take it easy') and every game would be quality.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:08 PM   #8464 (permalink)
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The Serbian and Croatian teams shouldn't be mentioned together. Croatia have been significantly better. If you wish to talk about historically, then yes. Sorry, just need to clarify that.

Just my two cents, the debate between you guys is somewhat funny. The beautiful thing about European National team football is this: You can take the top say, 10 countries in Europe, throw them together and what separates them is minutiae.

Tournaments, crown the winners of tournaments. I don't necessarily put much stock in Euro cups any longer because (in terms of national team) because of money and owners. Never forget that pull. For me judge national team football based off of a overall examination of their programs, so that's why you have to put Spain first and then well it's a debate.

Anyways for fun, if I had to list the top 10 in Europe (Senior teams) I'd say in no specific ranking:

Spain
Italy
Belgium
Netherlands
Germany
Croatia
France
Portugal
England
Bosnia

Full, healthy squads, place them against each other (with no owners telling them to 'rest' or 'take it easy') and every game would be quality.
I was just trying to point out that England isn't on par with the teams at the top.

Although the pull of owners, etc is there, it could be a lot stronger than it actually is.

Interesting list. I'm intrigued by Belgium. I hope they make it to Brazil.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:26 PM   #8465 (permalink)
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I was just trying to point out that England isn't on par with the teams at the top.

Although the pull of owners, etc is there, it could be a lot stronger than it actually is.

Interesting list. I'm intrigued by Belgium. I hope they make it to Brazil.
belgium with the right coach can become a power house in a few years. they have a really formidable young team, with some stars already in there with the likes of hazard and dembele. they just need to mature a bit, similar to germany 4-5 years ago, and get a coach to make best use of their weoponry
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:06 AM   #8466 (permalink)
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belgium with the right coach can become a power house in a few years. they have a really formidable young team, with some stars already in there with the likes of hazard and dembele. they just need to mature a bit, similar to germany 4-5 years ago, and get a coach to make best use of their weoponry
weaponry

You forgot about

Already a beast and has taken La Liga by storm. Peter Cech is good but he isn't getting any younger

Also - 7 million euro offer from Spurs for Coentrao talk about offering less than what a player is worth.

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Old 07-16-2013, 08:50 AM   #8467 (permalink)
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weaponry

You forgot about

Already a beast and has taken La Liga by storm. Peter Cech is good but he isn't getting any younger

Also - 7 million euro offer from Spurs for Coentrao talk about offering less than what a player is worth.
Cech has a good 5 years left. Going to be a problem next year when a decision has to be made.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:13 PM   #8468 (permalink)
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Cech has a good 5 years left. Going to be a problem next year when a decision has to be made.
Yeah but the kid has a good FIFTEEN years left - at least.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:21 PM   #8469 (permalink)
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weaponry

You forgot about

Already a beast and has taken La Liga by storm. Peter Cech is good but he isn't getting any younger

Also - 7 million euro offer from Spurs for Coentrao talk about offering less than what a player is worth.
we're not tapping him up. there's a difference. we started with a low ball offer, and we haggle and meet somewhere in the middle, or rather 25 percent up from our original offer since it's levy :mattyd:

honestly he's worth 14 at most. he's a lb don't forget that. If we do get him I think it'll be for around 10. it's not our fault you guys suck with money and spent 30+ on him
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:41 PM   #8470 (permalink)
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we're not tapping him up. there's a difference. we started with a low ball offer, and we haggle and meet somewhere in the middle, or rather 25 percent up from our original offer since it's levy :mattyd:

honestly he's worth 14 at most. he's a lb don't forget that. If we do get him I think it'll be for around 10. it's not our fault you guys suck with money and spent 30+ on him
BS man. What if Real came in with an official offer of say about 20 million euros for Bale right now?

Well I never wanted him and most Real fans never wanted him. I didn't spend 30 million euros on him. Also the deal was 30 for him but then at the same time Garay was sold to them (Benfica) for about 12 million euros. He should be worth more than 14 million euros considering he's one of the best LBs in the world. Also, if he was in the BPL people (BPL fans) would say he's worth a lot more. Anywho, almost every Real fan loves Marcelo and so do the coaching staff.

Meh - either way it'll be another 5th place or maybe 4th place finish (with some luck) for Spurs :mattyd:

Fun fact - Forbes has released that Real Madrid is the most valuable Sports Franchise in the world.

Also: Cavani to PSG - official now. Strootman to Rome. Maicon to Rome. Giaccherini to Sunderlandd.

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Old 07-16-2013, 08:38 PM   #8471 (permalink)
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BS man. What if Real came in with an official offer of say about 20 million euros for Bale right now?

Well I never wanted him and most Real fans never wanted him. I didn't spend 30 million euros on him. Also the deal was 30 for him but then at the same time Garay was sold to them (Benfica) for about 12 million euros. He should be worth more than 14 million euros considering he's one of the best LBs in the world. Also, if he was in the BPL people (BPL fans) would say he's worth a lot more. Anywho, almost every Real fan loves Marcelo and so do the coaching staff.

Meh - either way it'll be another 5th place or maybe 4th place finish (with some luck) for Spurs :mattyd:

Fun fact - Forbes has released that Real Madrid is the most valuable Sports Franchise in the world.

Also: Cavani to PSG - official now. Strootman to Rome. Maicon to Rome. Giaccherini to Sunderlandd.
I wouldn't care cause levy wouldn't even listen to the offer. coentrao has made it clear he wants to leave, and we came in with an offer. it's the start of a negotiation. our chairman or rather whatever role zizou holds didn't come out and say we want him but to make it happen he needs to hand in a transfer request.

maybe 4th? hahahahahaha. ok. we'll see about that bud. paulinho+striker=top 4. possible even third. if we get coentrao and/or chadi too then yeah 2nd isn't even that hard to fathom
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:43 PM   #8472 (permalink)
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Also: Cavani to PSG - official now. Strootman to Rome. Maicon to Rome. Giaccherini to Sunderlandd.
Negredo (€28m) and Jovetic (€30m) to Man City
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:41 PM   #8473 (permalink)
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I wouldn't care cause levy wouldn't even listen to the offer. coentrao has made it clear he wants to leave, and we came in with an offer. it's the start of a negotiation. our chairman or rather whatever role zizou holds didn't come out and say we want him but to make it happen he needs to hand in a transfer request.

maybe 4th? hahahahahaha. ok. we'll see about that bud. paulinho+striker=top 4. possible even third. if we get coentrao and/or chadi too then yeah 2nd isn't even that hard to fathom
Came in with an offer that is lower than the players' evaluation by the team. Ridiculously lower. You said it yourself teams need to meet other teams' evaluations. So, it's all fine with what you explained when Spurs do that but jeez if another team does it they're disrespectful, etc. All teams look to get a player lower than their value like your beloved Levy does. Only time that doesn't happen is if it's a superstar or if the team wants to make the transfer quick and easy for all parties involved.

Chelsea, City, United. Then the continuous battle with Spurs and Arsenal. Wait, never mind, you said Spurs would win BPL, FA Cup and Europa League

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Old 07-16-2013, 09:44 PM   #8474 (permalink)
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Negredo (€28m) and Jovetic (€30m) to Man City
Is it official yet though? Haven't seen it on Sevilla's or City's websites.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:19 PM   #8475 (permalink)
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Is it official yet though? Haven't seen it on Sevilla's or City's websites.
reported, not official.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:33 PM   #8476 (permalink)
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reported, not official.
Ah ok. Bad news for Sevilla. I've heard that they are interested in Kevin Gameiro. Fiorentina will be fine. I'm sure they'll make another signing. That team does really well with its transfers.

Side note but 64 million euros for Cavani :jack: Glad Real didn't get him.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:44 PM   #8477 (permalink)
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Came in with an offer that is lower than the players' evaluation by the team. Ridiculously lower. You said it yourself teams need to meet other teams' evaluations. So, it's all fine with what you explained when Spurs do that but jeez if another team does it they're disrespectful, etc. All teams look to get a player lower than their value like your beloved Levy does. Only time that doesn't happen is if it's a superstar or if the team wants to make the transfer quick and easy for all parties involved.

Chelsea, City, United. Then the continuous battle with Spurs and Arsenal. Wait, never mind, you said Spurs would win BPL, FA Cup and Europa League
you're missing my fucking point. You can low ball us all you want and I wouldn't care. we'd just say no. you tap our players up so that we're FORCED to sell for a low ball offer. see the difference? we're not tapping goddamn contrao up, just starting negotiations low, for a lb who isn't worth more than 14. he's a lb, not a midfielder, not a wingerforward, not a striker, but a goddamn lb.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:52 PM   #8478 (permalink)
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you're missing my fucking point. You can low ball us all you want and I wouldn't care. we'd just say no. you tap our players up so that we're FORCED to sell for a low ball offer. see the difference? we're not tapping goddamn contrao up, just starting negotiations low, for a lb who isn't worth more than 14. he's a lb, not a midfielder, not a wingerforward, not a striker, but a goddamn lb.
No I understand. You're missing the point. Perez is idiotically willing to offer 70-80 million euros, maybe more. So, it's not f**king low-balling. Why shouldn't Perez start at 20 million euros for Bale if it's just negotiating? Coentrao whether you like it or not would not start at LB for only a handful (or less) of teams. Don't be angry with me I don't even want Bale on Real. You put Spurs on some pedestal and say it's ok when they negotiate but when other teams, specifically big teams, offer below an evaluation you go into an outrage.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:57 PM   #8479 (permalink)
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No I understand. You're missing the point. Perez is idiotically willing to offer 70-80 million euros, maybe more. So, it's not f**king low-balling. Why shouldn't Perez start at 20 million euros for Bale if it's just negotiating? Coentrao whether you like it or not would not start at LB for only a handful (or less) of teams. Don't be angry with me I don't even want Bale on Real. You put Spurs on some pedestal and say it's ok when they negotiate but when other teams, specifically big teams, offer below an evaluation you go into an outrage.
read my post. I wouldn't care if you offered 20 million. I get outraged when you tap a player up so that we're forced to accept a low ball offer. it is the act of tapping up that angers me. perez can offer 20 million and I wouldn't care. I repeat. it is the TAPPING UP that bothers me
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:50 AM   #8480 (permalink)
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read my post. I wouldn't care if you offered 20 million. I get outraged when you tap a player up so that we're forced to accept a low ball offer. it is the act of tapping up that angers me. perez can offer 20 million and I wouldn't care. I repeat. it is the TAPPING UP that bothers me
Yeah I AM NOT BIDDING OR TAPPING ANY ONE UP. Ok I understand that but I'm just saying that in the past whenever you've mentioned a big team and an offer that came in to a smaller team that was even slightly smaller and they accepted (or not) you got angry and went on rants saying that evaluations must be met. But if Spurs do the exact same thing you think it's such a wise business decision. Also, even though you don't want Bale to go you've mentioned the lineup you'd predict Real would had if they had him and seemed kind of excited at that lineup. Lastly, this "tapping up" it happens - it's soccer/football/futbol. People can publicly admire players in the media. Look at what Barca did with Arsenal - that good sir, is tapping up and a phenomenally better example than the one you always complain of. Real were willing to offer 60-80 million euros for Cesc and Barca got him for peanuts. So, don't get so outraged if Real were to get Bale some day for 70 to eighty something million euros. Arsenal didn't get what they could of but it's called player power - player has to want to go to a team, other team has interest and there has to be a transfer fee. Or Arsenal could've not sold him and they'd have an unhappy player who might not want to play and have his value decrease.

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