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-   -   Relegation/Promotion format (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f47/relegation-promotion-format-15105.html)

Claudius 05-20-2010 10:33 AM

Relegation/Promotion format
 
So I was thinking yesterday, should North American sports begin to follow this format?

In European soccer for those who don't know, relegation and promotion, are common practices between the leagues.

In North America we essentially reward the loser by giving them the best young player and some teams even tank. With relegation, you're potentially losing money so the pressure to field a team with a chance to win is much greater. So is this something that could be employed here? At least with the MLS?

I could see it work with MLB. Have your premier and division 1 teams and have an ASG b/w the two divisions, that way your crappy teams like Pitt and KC have a chance to win something.

Hockey, allow the AHL to work as the D1. That way you can get interest in the AHL back up but also allow shockers like Hamilton, Winnipeg to enter into the NHL by simply winning.

It's an idea. I don't think it'd happen and kinks would have to work out but I find myself really bored with North American sports lately with the same markets always dominating.

DVS 05-20-2010 10:40 AM

Baseball has the best chance of working. Hockey and Baskeball have confusing cap systems, revenue sharing etc etc and it would have no chance at all.

Relegation works in Europe because fans stick with their teams. Its a religion there. I remember when Fiorentina was relegated all the way to Serie C2 and they still kept their fans and will have a new stadium soon as well not to mention just recently fairing out pretty well in CL play. Stories like that never would happen in North American Sports. You have Yankee fans in Northern Ontario who really couldn't tell you right from left when it comes to NYC. Fans are fans in North America for different reasons. We as a whole really don't take sports as seriously.

Windex 05-20-2010 11:08 AM

you know this system is not working in Europe
many teams collect debt just so they can stay up, or they spend too much money in their 1 year in a top flight and it takes years to pay it off
most teams in the big leagues lose money, even the big ones
also doesn't help that there is no salary cap

Claudius 05-20-2010 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windex (Post 379843)
you know this system is not working in Europe
many teams collect debt just so they can stay up, or they spend too much money in their 1 year in a top flight and it takes years to pay it off
most teams in the big leagues lose money, even the big ones
also doesn't help that there is no salary cap

Hence, why I said it needs to be ironed out and kinks worked out. And yes, I'm well aware of the debts (see: Portsmouth).

DVS 05-20-2010 11:33 AM

Everyone in Europe seem to be broke LOL. Except maybe Arsenal, Juve, Bayern, Real, Barce.

I say hey if you go broke you pay the penalty. Teams should be able to balance their operating budget or you become a Leeds.

Windex 05-20-2010 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 379844)
Hence, why I said it needs to be ironed out and kinks worked out. And yes, I'm well aware of the debts (see: Portsmouth).

and ManU, Chelsea, basically the EPL and La Liga outside of Barsa and Real

it would be fun cause almost every team has something to fight for, but I don't know if you can convince owners to spend all that money on a team that could go down. So many more entertainment/sporting options in NA compared to Europe and towns aren't loyal to only one team.
If the Rangers lag in a 2nd division their attendance will go down a lot and then you'll have a 46,000 seat ballpark (that still has to be maintained $$$) empty cause people will just spend money on the other teams

Windex 05-20-2010 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVS (Post 379858)
Everyone in Europe seem to be broke LOL. Except maybe Arsenal, Juve, Bayern, Real, Barce.

I say hey if you go broke you pay the penalty. Teams should be able to balance their operating budget or you become a Leeds.

wonder if Leads ever comes to the EPL. Still not even the Championship (silly name for a 2nd division)

Claudius 05-20-2010 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windex (Post 379864)
and ManU, Chelsea, basically the EPL and La Liga outside of Barsa and Real

it would be fun cause almost every team has something to fight for, but I don't know if you can convince owners to spend all that money on a team that could go down. So many more entertainment/sporting options in NA compared to Europe and towns aren't loyal to only one team.
If the Rangers lag in a 2nd division their attendance will go down a lot and then you'll have a 46,000 seat ballpark (that still has to be maintained $$$) empty cause people will just spend money on the other teams

You'd have to include a salary cap.

Two, teams would have create interest in their pro teams.

Three, if the Rangers lag, e.g. that's their penalty for being piss poor now isn't it?

DVS 05-20-2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windex (Post 379865)
wonder if Leads ever comes to the EPL. Still not even the Championship (silly name for a 2nd division)

They made it to the Coca Cola Championship. Just got promoted. Still they have a very hard core of fans. That wouldn't happen in North America

fancylad 05-20-2010 12:06 PM

i don't think it would ever work here as the concept is just WAYYYY too foreign for the 'businesses' that are NBA, mLB, NHL, etc. However, i love following the relegation / promotion battles that are part of sport in Europe. Makes it interesting as hell to be a fan of a crappy team.

EDIT: another thing that makes this a challenge in North American sports is the drafting system.

LX 05-20-2010 01:31 PM

It would be completely unnecessary in the NFL. The NFL in itself offers another possible model. And it's a model that would be just as difficult for other sports to follow.

Something definitely needs to be done in Basketball. I see two teams right now that can field rosters that seem complete and balanced, and one of them is filled with players heading towards retirement. Sure there are quite a few that are close, but that's still a big downgrade over the NBA that I remember. Close only promotes so much interest.

'trane 05-20-2010 01:34 PM

imo, the main problem is over-expanion, and the raps are part of that. the league is too watered down. and in connection with this, part of the problem with relegation in basketball is that individuals matter so much more than in soccer. if one guy goes down with an injury, especially in a watered down league, the whole season can go in teh crapper. if relegation is what waited for you at the end of a season already marred by injury it would be overly punitive.

LX 05-20-2010 01:42 PM

I agree that over-expansion was harmful at a time when they could count on MJ alone to sell tickets. Completely short-sighted. The sad thing is there were so many good teams at that time, and now there is a definite ceiling for most teams. So it goes beyond a watering down of the talent base. The way the CBA is structured makes it tough to put all the pieces together. Even with LA and Boston you had two ridiculous scenarios that no other teams can count on duplicating.


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