Official NHL Thread - Page 281
Old 01-16-2013, 12:30 PM   #5601 (permalink)
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You guys think Kadri or Rielly will break camp with the Leafs?
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:36 PM   #5602 (permalink)
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kadri will for sure. as he should.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:40 PM   #5603 (permalink)
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i would have figured Reilly wouldn't stay, but with Gardiner's injury (and doesn't some other D man have a knock too?), he just might.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:07 PM   #5604 (permalink)
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Apparently Reilly has really been impressing so far. I hope Kadri makes the leafs even if it's not in a top 6 role.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:11 PM   #5605 (permalink)
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I'm betting on Holzer (and keep an eye on Ranger to be called up very soon)
Kadri should be there

Would love to see Zigomanis crack the lineup as well
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #5606 (permalink)
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i still say that when they sent Kadri down last year after his brief stint it was a big mistake. It was totally undeserved and unfair. Guy was scoring at a decent clip and i can remember the game before they sent him down - i can remember watching him and saying that he looked like one of the teams more dangerous offensive players.

I don't think the team has managed him well at all.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:45 PM   #5607 (permalink)
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Ya the leafs never had much of a defensive system... which sucks major ass with a lack of a goalie.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:37 AM   #5608 (permalink)
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Ok.

i am pretty much getting annoyed now.

Please explain something to me, I am all ears. In the NHL, with an active roster of close to 20 players, how does one turn a completely lost franchise into a winner in 4 years?

Please tell me.

While explaining, please keep in mind the city, the ownership and the culture that had been fostered since Ballard was there.

You guys can say what you'd like but you're drawing from surface noise and not paying any attention whatsoever to what really happens.

When this guy came here the Franchise was absolutely done. Nobody on the ice, zero on the farm, and nothing in the minors. Do you know how long it takes to turn that around. keep in mind that Toronto ownership mandated that the team at least look like it was trying by signing old, and washed up "names" to keep fans attention, win just enough to look like they were gonna make the playoffs, and basically keep the brand name relevant.

You think I "Love" burke? Nope. But I know what he was doing, and he was the ONLY GM to have the nuts to do it in Toronto since I was a child. He took on ownership and did it his way. He paid for a way better staff, he hired good scouts, he spent his life on the road looking for new players. Toronto's infrastructural improved and so to did the results. People whine about the Kessel trade, well thats why the stockpiled so many picks, so they COULD make those moves to acquire a guaranteed commodity and not have to rely on a gamble. Kessel was 6th in scoring last year, you fucking guy wanna call everything a disaster...why, because he isnt Sidney effin crosby????? Sorry buddy, but calling that "dreadful" shows what you clearly don't grasp. When the dust settles, dougie Hamilton may become a winner, looks like he will, but from day one we know Kessel was. Oh, ps. Hows Kaberle doing?

Right now, Toronto is still at the bottom. But not far from being decent. the turn around so far was 4 years. with ownership that would NOT tolerate a planned tank, how the FUCK do you think you do it? This isn't a small market American wasteland where youre allowed to be last over all for 5 years (while toronto shares its revenue to keep you alive). In Toronto its a massive and complex game. As for the new guy, he will simply follow what the old guy was doing. So I'm happy bout that.

Here's an article a buddy of mine did. Its a fairly simple and basic piece thats good for people to get perspective. The failure of most is in unrealistic expectations. Fact is, burke was doing a fine job. He was fired over ego.

The 2008 Toronto Maple Leafs was easily the worst hockey team in recent memory.

There really wasn’t anything good about it. The team had no significant scoring talent to rally around, nothing remotely promising in the Toronto Marlies system, and next to no hopeful draft picks. The Leafs’ roster was bloated with players whose contracts included no-trade clauses, and two of the marginally valuable tradeworthy players—Carlo Colaiacovo and Alex Steen—were dealt to the St. Louis Blues less than a week before Brian Burke took the team’s reins. When Burke signed on as the Maple Leafs’ general manager halfway through the 2008-2009 season, the team he was inheriting wasn’t just bad, it was absolutely abysmal.

You can typically take any NHL team and sell off top performing assets for reasonable prospects, draft picks, or depth players. Take, for example, the worst performing team of the past decade: the 2006-07 Philadelphia Flyers. Of 164 possible points in a season, they managed only 56. Forget fifty-fifty: this team only won a quarter of its games that season. Even though the 06-07 Flyers was such a poor team, it still had plenty of assets to rebuild with. For example: trading Peter Forsberg landed it two promising prospects, a first-round pick, and a third-round pick from Nashville.

The 2008 Maple Leafs, however, could only manage a single second-round pick by trading away what was arguably their most valuable asset at that time: Nik Antropov. But it’s worth noting that the same day Burke traded Antropov for a second-rounder, he also managed to get another second-round pick for Dominic Moore, which is excellent value when you consider that Moore has never achieved stats to the level that he did for the Leafs in 08-09.

The rebuild had begun. Burke was selling off what assets the Leafs had as best as he could. The team was still terrible, and there was a long, long way to go. But at least it was getting better. In 2008, the Leafs had worse than nothing. By the end of 2009, they’d managed to bring themselves back to plain-old “nothing.”

Bigger Moves

In Burke’s first full season with the Leafs, his roster moves got bigger and bolder. Over the summer he wisely got rid of failed goaltending prospect Justin Pogge. He also acquired yet another second-round pick in exchange for two non-impact players.

In 2008, the Leafs were trying to survive on an inconsistent Vesa Toskala in the net, with a backup trio that included a well-past-his-prime Curtis Joseph, as well waiver-wire scraps from Ottawa in Martin Gerber, and also Pogge. Burke drastically improved the Leafs’ goaltending situation in 2009 by signing Jonas Gustavsson from Sweden, as well as upgrading from Vesa Toskala to Jean-Sébastien Giguère in a trade with Anaheim. The 09-10 season also saw Burke land a jackpot trade that brought premier defenceman Dion Phaneuf to Toronto in exchange for a grab-bag of spare parts.

And then, there was the Kessel trade. For some reason, Leafs fans and sports media love to rip Burke for this move. The Leafs gave up two years worth of first-round picks and a second-round pick for Phil Kessel. Yes, those two first-round picks ended up becoming Tyler Seguin (already an NHL All-Star) and Dougie Hamilton, who would have helped immensely. It’s easy to look back at this trade and say that Burke overpaid. At the time of the trade, however, the Leafs were getting a player that Burke believed to have All-Star potential for draft picks that could either have been boom or bust. And Kessel has performed as advertised. He’s been leading the Leafs in scoring while earning All-Star recognition in each of the last two seasons. Though in hindsight Burke did overpay, the trade was nowhere near as terrible as some make it out to have been.

Burke went after plenty of pugnacity through free-agent signings in 2009: Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill are shining examples. Arguably Burke’s worst move of the entire year was signing free agent Mike Komisarek. Komisarek’s contract was both too long and too expensive. While he provides some leadership as the Leafs alternate captain, he hasn’t made any kind of significant impact on the ice.

Into the Present

The team continued to improve in 2010. Burke acquired Joffrey Lupul, Jake Gardiner, and a fourth-round pick, all from Anaheim, in exchange for Francois Beauchemin. He also unloaded defensive deadweight Tomas Kaberle for a first-round pick from Boston. (Haters of Burke’s decision to take Kessel from Boston should love this one, as Kaberle has been pretty much dreadful for the Bruins.) In terms of free agents, the Leafs finally acquired some goaltending depth by signing Ben Scrivens and Jussi Rynnas, while James Reimer was emerging as another possible goalie talent. Clarke MacArthur, Colby Armstrong, and Michael Zigomanis were all excellent cost-for-value free agent signings in 2010 for the Leafs.

These moves have worked well for the Leafs. Kessel and Lupul are now the leading scorers on the team, while Phaneuf leads the team on scoring from the blue line. If recently acquired James van Riemsdyk adjusts well to a centre position between Kessel and Lupul, the Leafs will be looking even stronger this year than last. Without question, the current version of the Toronto Maple Leafs has promise. The team could be a fringe playoff contender for the first time in years. Granted, it still lacks a premier centreman, and while its goaltending prospects are very promising, they’re still largely unproven.

Toronto is still some distance from Stanley Cup contention, but the Leafs are a hell of a lot better than they were when Brian Burke first inherited the team. Had Burke not been so unceremoniously canned, it seems rather likely that Leafs fans would have started to see consecutive trips to the post-season for Toronto.

What can the Maple Leafs expect in the coming season? It’s still somewhat of a crap shoot. Burke’s replacement, Dave Nonis, is a Burke loyalist. It would be very surprising to see any kind of a roster shakeup. The Leafs’ best course of action would be to keep with the Burke plan—which notably includes staying away from trading for Roberto Luongo.

We’ll miss Burke’s truculence in press conferences almost as much as we’ll miss his excellent advocacy and charity work in Toronto over the past several years. (I mean, hell, we even selected Burke as a 2012 Hero for his efforts in promoting LGBTQ rights.) As for the Toronto Maple Leafs, we’re hoping that Burke’s vision for the team will come to fruition, even though Burke himself will have moved on.
good article to justify all that is good in Burke. I do agree he did start an infrastructure but alot of his moves went sour. I don't believe u have to "put on a show" in toronto. Fans are knowledgable enough to know they have to be horrible for a while to build their way back up. The dog and pony show just leads to frustration
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:10 AM   #5609 (permalink)
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I don't think it was a very good article. A lot instances where the glasses were just too rose-coloured. He really lost me when describing the Phaneuf trade.... "premier defenceman Dion Phaneuf to Toronto in exchange for a grab-bag of spare parts." I think Ian White is a better defenceman... and that Phaneuf is a big-salaried albatross for this team.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:31 AM   #5610 (permalink)
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Ian White isn't a better defencemen.

As for Kadri, Fancy, come on man. He's terrible.

he shows some flash, but he lacks character.

He bragged all year about working out with Roberts, and came in FAT, Again.

He simply will NOT listen to his coaches, still coughs the puck up making stupid moves entering the oppositions zone, which of course leads to uneven rushes the other way.

He doesn't seem to want to learn or be a professional. A lot of chatter out of the press was that he came in a cocky kid with entitlement issues and has done little to change that label. i'd love to see him play to his draft position, but it would seem, he has no intention of putting in the work needed to get there.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:46 AM   #5611 (permalink)
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i maintain that he hasn't gotten a fair shake and that he should have stayed with the club for the betterment of the club instead of being yo-yo'd to prove some point to him.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:52 AM   #5612 (permalink)
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he gives them no choice.

I fear we will never agree. i think if you can fleece a team into taking him, do it.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:06 AM   #5613 (permalink)
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Kadri hasn't had a fair chance in the NHL. He needs to get reps in if he's gonna be a regular NHLer. They should give him a real shot this year.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:08 AM   #5614 (permalink)
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I wanna see Matt Frattin make the club, but he'll probably start with the Marlies. Also apparently Connolly was put on waivers.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:41 AM   #5615 (permalink)
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I wanna see Matt Frattin make the club, but he'll probably start with the Marlies. Also apparently Connolly was put on waivers.
Love Frattin's game
First we have Lombardi's 3.5 coming off the books..now Connolly's 4.75
I smell a trade

Edit...after looking around, i'm not sure if Connolly's salary comes off the books..new CBA is rather confusing

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Old 01-17-2013, 11:44 AM   #5616 (permalink)
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Ian White isn't a better defencemen.
If he's not, it's a toss-up. Certainly from a value standpoint, White is a much better option.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:00 PM   #5617 (permalink)
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He really lost me when describing the Phaneuf trade....
Wuuuuuuuut??????

The Phaneuf trade was a insane fleecing of Calgary.
It was seriously beyond lobsided.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:10 PM   #5618 (permalink)
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Wuuuuuuuut??????

The Phaneuf trade was a insane fleecing of Calgary.
It was seriously beyond lobsided.
Why, because Phaneuf has a marquee name? He has been anything but a marquee player for us..... in fact on many nights in the last couple seasons, he has been a serious liability.

One of the great failings of this organization has been its track record of acquiring players based on their name recognition (after their best playing days are behind them) and not so much on a thorough evaluation of where their game is and is going to be. Acquiring Luongo, who carries massive name recognition (and salary), would be yet another example of this.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:43 PM   #5619 (permalink)
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With Connolly gone does that mean Kadri will centre a line with JVR and someone else?

Kessel Bozak Lupul
Kule Grabo Mac
JVR Kadri ?
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:45 PM   #5620 (permalink)
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Why, because Phaneuf has a marquee name? He has been anything but a marquee player for us..... in fact on many nights in the last couple seasons, he has been a serious liability.

One of the great failings of this organization has been its track record of acquiring players based on their name recognition (after their best playing days are behind them) and not so much on a thorough evaluation of where their game is and is going to be. Acquiring Luongo, who carries massive name recognition (and salary), would be yet another example of this.
Phaneuf is decent, not worth the price tag but I'd take him over Ian White. I really dont want Luongo especially if we gotta give up Bozak, Gardiner or Frattin
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