Official NHL Thread - Page 253
Old 02-29-2012, 10:06 AM   #5041 (permalink)
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hopefully when bell and rogers take over there will be more accountabilty.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:11 AM   #5042 (permalink)
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hopefully when bell and rogers take over there will be more accountabilty.
Can't be any worse than it has been the last few years, for any toronto team holy fuck. One of the Mecca's of sports in general (Canadian at least) and can't put a fucking decent team out for any sport, its pathetic.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:32 AM   #5043 (permalink)
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hopefully when bell and rogers take over there will be more accountabilty.
I think there will be - simply because it will reflect poorly on the corporation - their brands, etc. There'd be more pressure to live up to all of the hype MLSE has created over the years with their Leafs Nation/13 Stanley Cups bullcrap. What do the Teachers' care?
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:54 AM   #5044 (permalink)
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hopefully when bell and rogers take over there will be more accountabilty.
highly doubt that...why ?...because this team will make any owner a boatload of cash...and that's the bottom line isn't it
i've been saying for years now that the real problem with this franchise is the fans...even during the horrible Ballard era the place was still sold out every game...impossible to get a ticket
this will never change

that being said....i think people need to settle down here and take a hard look at what this organization has right now
for me the future is bright...they are a couple of steps away at making a serious run...youngest team in the NHL and loading up with talent in the minor system as well...one of the best front offices in the league and the best (by far) goalie coach in the game today
ACC fans are finally waking up and are focusing their discontent on the weakest link...Ron Wilson..he needs to be escorted out of town...pronto..
only reason he wasn't canned last year is because of a young goaltender who stood on his head for about 25 games...he doesn't have that luxury this time around...he (and a lack of a modern system) has been exposed

we need a new coach...someone with vision, someone with a modern take on the game, but most importantly, someone who is capable of making "in game" decisions and adjustments on the fly
and if BB continues with this stubborness then he should be kicked out of town as well...enough is enough

just my 2 Canadian cents
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:07 AM   #5045 (permalink)
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highly doubt that...why ?...because this team will make any owner a boatload of cash...and that's the bottom line isn't it
i've been saying for years now that the real problem with this franchise is the fans...even during the horrible Ballard era the place was still sold out every game...impossible to get a ticket
this will never change

that being said....i think people need to settle down here and take a hard look at what this organization has right now
for me the future is bright...they are a couple of steps away at making a serious run...youngest team in the NHL and loading up with talent in the minor system as well...one of the best front offices in the league and the best (by far) goalie coach in the game today
ACC fans are finally waking up and are focusing their discontent on the weakest link...Ron Wilson..he needs to be escorted out of town...pronto..
only reason he wasn't canned last year is because of a young goaltender who stood on his head for about 25 games...he doesn't have that luxury this time around...he (and a lack of a modern system) has been exposed

we need a new coach...someone with vision, someone with a modern take on the game, but most importantly, someone who is capable of making "in game" decisions and adjustments on the fly
and if BB continues with this stubborness then he should be kicked out of town as well...enough is enough

just my 2 Canadian cents
agree with you about Wilson at the moment. I was patient with him, but fuck so many problems this team has can be corrected with coaching.

However i'd like to challenge some of your other points. Firstly the whole 'fan' thing. How is this an actual problem? People here love their team. They'll support it no matter what - win or mostly lose. If it was any other team, the fans would be commended for supporting a team through the hard times. Raptor fans always toot their own horn about how the fans still show up even when the poduct is poor and how that is a good thing. I don't blame the fans for going to the games. I can appreciate the in game protests as a way of sending a message. the booing, the waffle throwing. It's all good.

I agree that there are some good signs going forward and a good group of young players - specifically on D.

Now about the goalie coach... how is this guy the best in the world when his two subjects suck complete balls? One goalie was the best keeper not in the NHL a short while ago. shows flashes of genius. yet overall sucks and can't put it together. how has the coach helped Jonas at all? the other goalie was quite good last year and now that he's had more time to work with the coaches has gone to hell. I don't comprehend how you can be so complimentary towards the goalie coach when he has shown that he deserves nothing but criticism.

Last edited by fancylad; 02-29-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:10 PM   #5046 (permalink)
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agree with you about Wilson at the moment. I was patient with him, but fuck so many problems this team has can be corrected with coaching.

However i'd like to challenge some of your other points. Firstly the whole 'fan' thing. How is this an actual problem? People here love their team. They'll support it no matter what - win or mostly lose. If it was any other team, the fans would be commended for supporting a team through the hard times. Raptor fans always toot their own horn about how the fans still show up even when the poduct is poor and how that is a good thing. I don't blame the fans for going to the games. I can appreciate the in game protests as a way of sending a message. the booing, the waffle throwing. It's all good.

I agree that there are some good signs going forward and a good group of young players - specifically on D.

Now about the goalie coach... how is this guy the best in the world when his two subjects suck complete balls? One goalie was the best keeper not in the NHL a short while ago. shows flashes of genius. yet overall sucks and can't put it together. how has the coach helped Jonas at all? the other goalie was quite good last year and now that he's had more time to work with the coaches has gone to hell. I don't comprehend how you can be so complimentary towards the goalie coach when he has shown that he deserves nothing but criticism.
glad to see your finally coming around regarding Wilson ...i won't bore people any longer about my feelings toward him...i've said enough

regarding the fans...first let me say this...Toronto hockey fans are the greatest, most knowledgable and patient fans in the world...they love their hockey so much that they will pay big bucks to watch anything...and that my friend is the problem...regardless of what kind of product is put on the ice, they will support it
so there is no accountability (as you mentioned earlier) on the behalf of any owner because the owners know that they will NEVER lose money..hell, there were teams during the Ballard era that would have been regularly beaten by some Junior teams and Ballard sat up in his box laughing at the fans at the Gardens
just once i would like to see the ACC 3/4 empty of fans (not the corporate idiots who sit in the platinums )...the real fans who fork over their hard earned money...only the fans can send a message to this organization by staying away in droves...but it will never happen

regarding Allaire....he is the best in the world..he has been the cutting edge of goalie techniques since the mid 1980's when he started developing his Hybrid/Blocking system...take a look at any of the top (oh let's say) 30 goalies in the NHL and you'll see that they all play his system (except Thomas and Brodeur )...but then both of them are freaks of nature

take a look at the New York Rangers for example...Lundqvist is ranked 1st in save % (.940), 1st in shutouts (8) and 2nd in GAA (1.75)....he plays the same Hybrid/Blocking system as the Leaf goalies...and you know who coaches Lundqvist ?...Benoit Allaire (Francois' brother)....Benoit coaches the system that his brother invented

so just because Reimer and the Monster are having a sporadic year doesn't mean that Allaire isn't a great goalie coach...all any coach can do is bring a system to the table...hell, even i can see all the little things they are doing wrong...and if i can see them, Allaire certainly can...it's up to them to make it click
another factor is playing in net in THE most frenzied media enviornment in pro hockey (mental state and ability to handle immense pressure is a fact of life in TO)
there's also the possibility that both just aren't that good (but i don't believe that)
are they better because of Allaire ?...HELL YES

yes both still need to improve but i also want to suggest that other teams have better systems in place in front of their goaltenders...defensive zone coverage, transition, PK etc etc etc
that makes a huge difference as well

i could ramble on a lot longer but i've got to go...just trust me when i say this...
i know a bit about hockey in general, but i know a LOT about goaltending...i've worked with (and tutored for) a guy who i consider to be the 2nd best goaltending coach in North America behind Allaire (Jon Elkin...Website)

bottom line is that almost every program around the world is fashioned after Allaire's original...and he continues to lead the way by constantly upgrading it

the Leaf organization is EXTREMELY lucky to have him...BEST move BB has made since joining the club

Last edited by Shadowfax; 02-29-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:11 PM   #5047 (permalink)
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glad to see your finally coming around regarding Wilson ...i won't bore people any longer about my feelings toward him...i've said enough

regarding the fans...first let me say this...Toronto hockey fans are the greatest, most knowledgable and patient fans in the world...they love their hockey so much that they will pay big bucks to watch anything...and that my friend is the problem...regardless of what kind of product is put on the ice, they will support it
so there is no accountability (as you mentioned earlier) on the behalf of any owner because the owners know that they will NEVER lose money..hell, there were teams during the Ballard era that would have been regularly beaten by some Junior teams and Ballard sat up in his box laughing at the fans at the Gardens
just once i would like to see the ACC 3/4 empty of fans (not the corporate idiots who sit in the platinums )...the real fans who fork over their hard earned money...only the fans can send a message to this organization by staying away in droves...but it will never happen

regarding Allaire....he is the best in the world..he has been the cutting edge of goalie techniques since the mid 1980's when he started developing his Hybrid/Blocking system...take a look at any of the top (oh let's say) 30 goalies in the NHL and you'll see that they all play his system (except Thomas and Brodeur )...but then both of them are freaks of nature

take a look at the New York Rangers for example...Lundqvist is ranked 1st in save % (.940), 1st in shutouts (8) and 2nd in GAA (1.75)....he plays the same Hybrid/Blocking system as the Leaf goalies...and you know who coaches Lundqvist ?...Benoit Allaire (Francois' brother)....Benoit coaches the system that his brother invented

so just because Reimer and the Monster are having a sporadic year doesn't mean that Allaire isn't a great goalie coach...all any coach can do is bring a system to the table...hell, even i can see all the little things they are doing wrong...and if i can see them, Allaire certainly can...it's up to them to make it click
another factor is playing in net in THE most frenzied media enviornment in pro hockey (mental state and ability to handle immense pressure is a fact of life in TO)
there's also the possibility that both just aren't that good (but i don't believe that)
are they better because of Allaire ?...HELL YES

yes both still need to improve but i also want to suggest that other teams have better systems in place in front of their goaltenders...defensive zone coverage, transition, PK etc etc etc
that makes a huge difference as well

i could ramble on a lot longer but i've got to go...just trust me when i say this...
i know a bit about hockey in general, but i know a LOT about goaltending...i've worked with (and tutored for) a guy who i consider to be the 2nd best goaltending coach in North America behind Allaire (Jon Elkin...Website)

bottom line is that almost every program around the world is fashioned after Allaire's original...and he continues to lead the way by constantly upgrading it

the Leaf organization is EXTREMELY lucky to have him...BEST move BB has made since joining the club
All i know is that both goalies are worse now than they were when they first joined the maple leafs. Jonas was pretty amazing back in sweden. Then he gets here and within a few years it looks like he'll be going back to his native land. Surely a good goalie coach can take a promising young player and make him better. Same thing with Reimer. I don't know the technical side of goalie coaching and systems, but like it applies to any form of coaching, maybe certain goalies aren't suited to certain styles. It's up to the coach to get the most out of his player however he can attain it. Clearly Allaire has failed with both of the goalies in that regard. best in the world? I'm not so sure.

And going back to the fans thing, what we see here is the nature of being a flagship team in its league. The Maple Leafs are to the NHL what the Yankees, Sox are to MLB; what the Cowboys, Patriots are to the NFL. YOu know how i look at it? The Maple Leafs aren't just a sports team, they're a part of the soul of the city. Take Manchester United or Liverpool FC in England. Even if those teams were to suck (like my team for a short while), fans would still pack the stadium and give it their all for the team. It's just the way it is. And it's a beautiful thing in my eyes.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:54 PM   #5048 (permalink)
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All i know is that both goalies are worse now than they were when they first joined the maple leafs.

Clearly Allaire has failed with both of the goalies in that regard.
Ridiculous
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:09 PM   #5049 (permalink)
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well they're sure playing their worst for long stretches of games!
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:23 PM   #5050 (permalink)
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By my count, Wilson has been caught on terrible line matchups at least 4 or 5 times so far this game...has cost them at least 2 goals

His reaction on the last matchup mistake (a goal) ?...a simple shrug of the chin
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:47 PM   #5051 (permalink)
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The goalies stand on their heads enough, but the defence is terrible.

our so called first line cant get out of their own end, and the goalies are getting shelled.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:50 PM   #5052 (permalink)
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well imma say this now but leafs are done, stick a fork in them
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:03 PM   #5053 (permalink)
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What kind of haul could we get for Phaneuf? I think it's time we move on from the Dion experiment and grow with our young D-men.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:18 PM   #5054 (permalink)
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well imma say this now but leafs are done, stick a fork in them
18 games left I suspect they need about 30 points to make the playoffs.

I don't see this team going that hot playing some really big games down the stretch.


Wilson you got your severance see ya later this summer. Burke hire your last coach in Toronto
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #5055 (permalink)
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J-E-T-S.

My team is out, so if they get into the playoffs, they are my adopted team.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:41 PM   #5056 (permalink)
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18 games left I suspect they need about 30 points to make the playoffs.
just looked at the schedule..the last 18 are brutal...i'll guess they win 6 tops
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:20 PM   #5057 (permalink)
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Well... GO NASHVILLE! Lol...
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:08 AM   #5058 (permalink)
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you know Montreal is not that far from us now....

Please toronto, do it right and tank HARD. get a good pick.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:19 PM   #5059 (permalink)
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you know Montreal is not that far from us now....

Please toronto, do it right and tank HARD. get a good pick.
agreed...this one's over...even if they went 500 (which would be a MAJOR accomplishment) i don't think it'll be enough to squeeze in

tank and tank hard
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:20 PM   #5060 (permalink)
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Leafs had us fooled for quite awhile
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