The Official MMA Thread - Page 4
Old 07-12-2009, 09:02 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Didn't Machida beat Tito Ortiz?
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:16 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Didn't Machida beat Tito Ortiz?
Yea

And I don't know how u can say GSP is the pound for pound champ when there's another champ (Machida) who's undefeated, hasn't lost a round in the UFC, barely gets hit, and has 2 first round KO's in his last two fights (and rashad was undefeated before that and never been KO'd).

GSP on the other hand has lost 2 fights already. One lucky shot by Matt Serra, and the other loss to Matt Hughes I believe. If the Knicks start 19-2 next year, and the Raps start 15-0... I don't think u'd say the Knicks are better.

Machida is the pound for pound champ and I hope he drops and GSP goes up and they fight at 185.
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:57 PM   #63 (permalink)
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thats ridiculous.

GSP has fought and beat:
A prime matt hughes, (twice)
a prime Prodigy, (twice)
Koscheck-who was on a winning streak and got beat at his own game,
Finch-who was on an 8 fight win streak terrorizing every opponent,
Miller, Sherk, Trigg all at the top of their games
Parisian and Hieron

Machida
Beat an older Tito who had lost like 3 straight fights
Beat Nogueira-good victory
Heath, Hoger, ---Who? tune up fights
Nakamura who was high
And Rashad-solid win.

I'll let actions speak. GSP is the better fighter.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:15 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Machida still has the tools and potential to beat GSP though. Joe Silva is the one who makes the fights in the UFC. It's not Machida who does.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:57 PM   #65 (permalink)
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thats ridiculous.

GSP has fought and beat:
A prime matt hughes, (twice)
a prime Prodigy, (twice)
Koscheck-who was on a winning streak and got beat at his own game,
Finch-who was on an 8 fight win streak terrorizing every opponent,
Miller, Sherk, Trigg all at the top of their games
Parisian and Hieron

Machida
Beat an older Tito who had lost like 3 straight fights
Beat Nogueira-good victory
Heath, Hoger, ---Who? tune up fights
Nakamura who was high
And Rashad-solid win.

I'll let actions speak. GSP is the better fighter.
BJ was in his prime last time against GSP? that's a stretch. He was chilling in hawaii instead of training, Dana had to yell at him.

I like your list but let's go to another list.

GSP Losses:
Matt Hughes
Matt Serra

Machida Losses:


--------------------------
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:56 PM   #66 (permalink)
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as i said, one guy has cleaned out an entire division, one guy has just become champion... i wonder who has the better resume?? Machida could be the best p4p, but he needs some big wins over big names. Rashad is a very good fighter, but there are many tests ahead esp in that division, i find it unbelieveable that u can be the best pound for pound in anything, yet you havent even been a champion til now and you are yet to defend your title. Like many fighters say, you arent really the champ unless you defend.

As for pitting GSP vs Machida.... hmmmm.... wonder if the guy who naturally weighs 50 pounds more has a huge advantage..... silly way to find out, nobody can test GSP at 170, machida is quite possiblely the same at 205, but we need to find out.

Saying BJ Penn isnt in his prime is a damn lie, so what, he is known to not train his hardest at times.... you know, like the time Machida beat him weighing 40 pounds more then him.... which i consider to be the only true world class, elite type fighter machida has faced. I love Rashad, but besides Forrest, he really hadnt fought anybody either, his resume was actually very Machida-esqe when he won, undefeated etc etc etc, but only a couple real names on the resume.

Pound for Pound is never equated in wins and losses, if i beat up 25 cans, am i better then Machida??

Not only does Machida have the tools to beat GSP, i would be anything he would, GSP wouldnt be able to win the 185 crown imo, nevermind take on a real LHW, its just not a fair comparison, just like its not a fair comparison to judge BJ Penn on his 2nd loss to george, he was giving up length, strength and bulk to a guy with world class skills just like himself, take the bigger guy everytime.

When/if Machida beats Shogun then Rampage, lets reopen this discussion, until then, i got him as a solid 4th in the pound for pound

1. GSP (take away a lucky shot and he holds the ufc record for defenses + his resume is a who
s who at 170)
2. Fedor (plz come fight brock, your contract ends after next affliction card, could be number 1, but lack of action and some questionable opponents holding him in 2nd)
3. Anderson Silva (who can beat him at 185?? i think giving dan henderson another shot isnt a bad idea)
4. Machida
5. BJ Penn (there is no 155 in the world, in any organization that can beat him imo)
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:49 AM   #67 (permalink)
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I think it's time for Anderson Silva to step up to 205. He naturally walk around at 220+.
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:49 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
BJ was in his prime last time against GSP? that's a stretch. He was chilling in hawaii instead of training, Dana had to yell at him.

I like your list but let's go to another list.

GSP Losses:
Matt Hughes
Matt Serra

Machida Losses:


--------------------------
Sorry man, I love Machida, but he has to have a few more big time match ups and come through before I'm gonna crown him anything.

Why is Silva not mentioned in this discussion. Has his dominance become boring?
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:16 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Two things.

Belcher lost. It was a good decision, he got hit, a lot.

Second, lost in all this aftermath is the fact that the UFC circus will remain as such until they can find a way to clean it up. The End of the Henderson Bisping fight was a prime example of why it will never be considered a true sport.

Popular, yes, but fuck, so is calling black people Niggers, and Gay bashing in many parts of the world. People are idiots.

For every class act like Machida, or GSP, there's a Douchebag like Henderson that not only blatently shows ZERO regard for his opponents life, but even admits as much in the post interview. A trained fighter, a guy who works only to inflict damage brought his fist from 5 feet above ground, used all his might, and all the gravity he could from the elevation to try to hit an obviously out cold Bisping in the face...... to, in his words "shut him up a bit."

This is why this is a sport that is dying as fast as it's growing if they don't put an end to this shit ASAP.

I like MMA. I like MArtial Arts. I don't like the bullshit meathead attitude thats left over from the early 90's when this shit was purely for the gore involved. There's no excuse for any of this at all.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:24 AM   #70 (permalink)
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There ya go. "Sportsmanship" at it's highest point.

Wow.

Look how fast he got off him.... you only get up that fast because you knew long ago the guy you hit was already out cold.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:40 AM   #71 (permalink)
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There ya go. "Sportsmanship" at it's highest point.

Wow.

Look how fast he got off him.... you only get up that fast because you knew long ago the guy you hit was already out cold.
He admitted after the fight to knowing he was out and hitting him one last time anyways.
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:06 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Well thats ridiculous, he needs to be fined and publicly chastised and the UFC missed a chance to really look good by letting him away with that.

Again, I like MMA, but that wasn't MMA, that was bullshit.

You don't see guys like Machida, GSP or Silva doing that.
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:15 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Reminiscent of Mike Tyson's three punch knock out of whatshisname where he knocked him out with the first one and preceded to smack him two more times on his way down. Than he was quoted as saying something like "Each punch had the intention to kill" or something like that.


Was Henderson's last punch really dirty, yes. Evil? yes.

But fighters are trained to "finish him off" until the ref steps in. So you can't "fine" or regulate maneuvers like that. It was dirty, but legal.

Even in Lesnars fight, he kept throwing and threw a couple extra when Mir was out. He threw until the official stepped in.

That's what you do.
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:39 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Well, no, you don't.

But whatever, the sport IS getting better, but these hiccups are doing nothing to help it get better faster.

Luckily, Monsieur "Sportsmanship" himself won big enough to take the spotlight opff that stupid punch to save a little face for the organization.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:24 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Machida is he least hit guy in MMA history. He gets hit once every 2 and a half rounds. Say what you want about MMA etc... karate is all about avoiding shots and not being hit. How can he not be the pound for pound champ if 1) he's the champion.. 2) he's undefeated unlike GSP and 3) you can't even hit him lol.

Not to mention he doesnt run away all fight or anything... he counters so well and has two first round KO's.

Here is what Dana white has to say about Machida.. and talks about that stat (1 hit every 2.5 rounds).


As for the Henderson fight.. that was a stupid move by him.. but his job is to beat the life outta his opponent, it's the ref's job to stop the fight. I've seen times where ppl have been down and clinched long enough to get their senses back.. Henderson had to hit him until the ref took him off. But still a foul play.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:02 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Henderson did what he is trained to do - fight until the ref stops you. Bisping was lucky the ref got in there as quickly as he did because Hendo was posturing up to hit him again. Anyone come across some post fight comments from Bisping? I haven't heard a thing, which is something considering how much The Count likes to hear his own voice.

Machida is great but he is going to have to defend a few times to be included in the best p4p debate with Silva, GSP and Fedor.

UFC 101 - looking forward to seeing Silva and Forrest. Should be a decent test for the Spider.

And the UFC has got to use every tactic they can to get Fedor in for a fight with Lesnar. Carwin or Velasquez are good alternatives but should likely be given some much needed experince first.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:02 PM   #77 (permalink)
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sorry SJ, if you knew anything about MMA or Dan Henderson, you wouldnt have made that rant at all. One shot while your down wont kill you, it looks worse then it was, he didnt break his jaw and bisping is fine.... you wanna know whats dangerous tho?? Getting a HUGE concussion, being knocked out, waking up and having 10 seconds to get up again, while the blood rushes to your head and going out and getting your head smashed in again... thats why you rarely see elite boxers past his mid 30s, but you see plenty of MMA fighters that are, the statistics are out there SJ if you wanna look them up, MMA is much safer then boxing, which is accepted as a true sport by just about everybody, it is also the fastest growing sport in the world, by far.

And bmats, up until these last 2 fights the biggest critism of Machida wasnt his skill, its his BORING style, he has some of the most boring runaway all fight tactics in mma history (look at him vs ortiz or franklin long time ago). But he seems to be getting more aggressive and finishing fights, so idc anymore.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:08 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Hederson was just jacked, If I was in a fight and knocked someone out like that I probably would follow up as well, it happens ALL the time.

I seen Lidell do it many times, Rampage did it as recently as his fight against Wanderlaei, Houston Alexander did it to Jardine and Jardine did it to Lidell

I have seen Sherk do it alot, BJ Penn, Sanchez the list goes on and on.
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:02 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Bullshit.

Wait until MMA is as big as boxing, wait till the numbers catch up.

If they continue to allow that shit you'll see plenty of dead guys. As for the comment on no dying from one shot.... you don't reall ybelieve that do you?
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Old 07-14-2009, 04:53 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Hendo did what he was supposed to do, keep going until the ref stops it.
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