The Official MMA Thread - Page 120
Old 10-14-2012, 05:07 AM   #2381 (permalink)
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ooh, then there's that, ouch. Had no idea. I feel terrible for the guy then.



tht said, he's clearly in mental pain and sick, why would you call him an ass?
I didn't get the memo until I saw another video
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Old 10-14-2012, 05:33 AM   #2382 (permalink)
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:52 AM   #2383 (permalink)
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Cans? He's unquestionably the best MMA fighter ever at the moment. Jones is the only guy who has the potential to over take him.
Vitor... Chael... Hendo.... those are the only 3 fighters that Silva's fought who even gave him anything that resembled a fight.

Then look at the records of the other guys he's fought.... I rest my case.

When I think of "Greatest fighter of all time" I think of guys who actually fought TOP TIER talent and strung a lot of wins together.

Hendo would fit into that category.

Jones is getting there.

Liddell was there until he stuck around too long.


If Silva fights GSP or Jones and beats them convincingly he'll change my mind. 'til then I'll have my doubts. Even Fedor had a more impressive record (based on the opponents) IMO.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:20 AM   #2384 (permalink)
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Wow. Silva didnt even look concerned. It was a sparring session for him!
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:45 PM   #2385 (permalink)
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he was fighting a washed up, never was in Bonnar. Shameful and embarrassing for the UFC. There are other, younger and better fighters that could have givin the guy a fight. its just one gaff after another with these guys lately.

As for GSP, I wish people would drop this. He doesnt cut as much as people think, he isnt a big guy. Silva is 220 lbs man, they are NOT even close in weight class. GSP doesnt owe anyone anything, making him fight a superstar like silva who is clearly much bigger is not doing ANYTHING for GSP, he has everything to lose.

We all wanna know what might happen, but honestly, it should never happen...its like, who wold win, Sugar Ray Leonard or Muhammad Ali? we would love to know, but would you have put them in a ring?
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:45 PM   #2386 (permalink)
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oh, and Silva...he needs to stop being a douche in the ring.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:27 PM   #2387 (permalink)
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Vitor... Chael... Hendo.... those are the only 3 fighters that Silva's fought who even gave him anything that resembled a fight.

Then look at the records of the other guys he's fought.... I rest my case.

When I think of "Greatest fighter of all time" I think of guys who actually fought TOP TIER talent and strung a lot of wins together.

Hendo would fit into that category.

Jones is getting there.

Liddell was there until he stuck around too long.


If Silva fights GSP or Jones and beats them convincingly he'll change my mind. 'til then I'll have my doubts. Even Fedor had a more impressive record (based on the opponents) IMO.

Just becuase some of his opponents didn't give him a fight, that doesn't mean they were not ranked.

I think I went through this before, but let's do it again. Anderson has 16 ranked wins (people he beat that were ranked in the top 10 of their respective division). To make it easier, I'll go through his ranked UFC wins:

- Rich Franklin (# 1 ranked MW in the world, was the UFC MW champ)
- Nate Marquardt (top 10 MW)
- Rich Franklin (top 3 MW, former champ)
- Dan Henderson (top 5 MW, former champ)
- Thales Leites (top 10 MW)
- Forrest Griffin (top 5 LHW, former champ)
- Demain Maia (top 5 MW)
- Chael Sonnen (# 2 ranked MW)
- Vitor Belfort (top 8 MW)
- Yushin Okami (top 5 MW)
- Chael Sonnen (# 2 ranked MW)

But I guess their all cans though. Anderson has never fought the best his division has to offer. These guys were never ranked, who am I kidding.

Not only has Anderson beat all these ranked fighters, he's finished most of them in devastating fashion. He has made his competition look like amateurs.

Anderson's accomplishments:

- Undefeated in almost 8 years
- Most consecutive title defences (undefeated)
- Most top 10 wins, second most top 5 wins (second to only GSP)
- 17 consecutive wins (16 of them in the UFC, longest in UFC history)
- Most knockdowns in UFC history.
- Top 5 wins in three different weight classes
- First fighter to ever beat Rich Franklin at MW and the first and only MW to finish Dan Henderson.
- Never been tko'd/KO'd

He easily has the best resume in all of MMA.

Dan Henderson? The same Hendo that lost to Jake freakin' Shields pretty recently. Yes, he is a legend and all-time great, but he's not touching Anderson.

If Jones keeps this up, he will likely surpass Anderson in the GOAT rankings. But right now, it's not even close.

Chuck Liddell? He's not even the greatest LHW. Mr. 1 win in his last 6 fights (with 4 of losses coming via KO). Liddell isn't even in the top 5 of all time. Finally, Anderson is closing in on doubling the ranked wins of Liddell. So that should give you an idea of who's faced and beaten the better competition.

If Anderson isn't the GOAT, then who is?
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:28 PM   #2388 (permalink)
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oh, and Silva...he needs to stop being a douche in the ring.
I'm not a fan of his in-fight antics, but the way he tools his opponents is godly.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:34 PM   #2389 (permalink)
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yep, he's good. but I think there is a real shortage in his weight class.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:44 PM   #2390 (permalink)
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Just becuase some of his opponents didn't give him a fight, that doesn't mean they were not ranked.

I think I went through this before, but let's do it again. Anderson has 16 ranked wins (people he beat that were ranked in the top 10 of their respective division). To make it easier, I'll go through his ranked UFC wins:

- Rich Franklin (# 1 ranked MW in the world, was the UFC MW champ)
- Nate Marquardt (top 10 MW)
- Rich Franklin (top 3 MW, former champ)
- Dan Henderson (top 5 MW, former champ)
- Thales Leites (top 10 MW)
- Forrest Griffin (top 5 LHW, former champ)
- Demain Maia (top 5 MW)
- Chael Sonnen (# 2 ranked MW)
- Vitor Belfort (top 8 MW)
- Yushin Okami (top 5 MW)
- Chael Sonnen (# 2 ranked MW)

But I guess their all cans though. Anderson has never fought the best his division has to offer. These guys were never ranked, who am I kidding.

Not only has Anderson beat all these ranked fighters, he's finished most of them in devastating fashion. He has made his competition look like amateurs.

Anderson's accomplishments:

- Undefeated in almost 8 years
- Most consecutive title defences (undefeated)
- Most top 10 wins, second most top 5 wins (second to only GSP)
- 17 consecutive wins (16 of them in the UFC, longest in UFC history)
- Most knockdowns in UFC history.
- Top 5 wins in three different weight classes
- First fighter to ever beat Rich Franklin at MW and the first and only MW to finish Dan Henderson.
- Never been tko'd/KO'd

He easily has the best resume in all of MMA.

Dan Henderson? The same Hendo that lost to Jake freakin' Shields pretty recently. Yes, he is a legend and all-time great, but he's not touching Anderson.

If Jones keeps this up, he will likely surpass Anderson in the GOAT rankings. But right now, it's not even close.

Chuck Liddell? He's not even the greatest LHW. Mr. 1 win in his last 6 fights (with 4 of losses coming via KO). Liddell isn't even in the top 5 of all time. Finally, Anderson is closing in on doubling the ranked wins of Liddell. So that should give you an idea of who's faced and beaten the better competition.

If Anderson isn't the GOAT, then who is?
Forgot about Franklin... I'll def. give him props for those wins as well... but Leites, Marquart, Maia (at that weight), Okami.... and a Griffin and Bonnar that have almost ZERO skill and are all heart/toughness/brawling.

Sorry... but I'm less than impressed. Have you heard anything about any of those guys since? Except for Maia who had to move down a weight class to achieve some success?

When I mentioned Liddell I noted that he stated in the UFC a bit too long... Dana had feared that for while. If you take out his last 3 fights he'd have been 21-5 and if you look at the wins that he's had over his career it was a who's who of elite fighters at the time. Ortiz x 2, Couture x 2, Babalu x 2, Horn, Randleman, Vitor, Overeem... even his losses (1 to Jardine, 2x to Rampage, 1 to Couture and 1 to Horn) were against some solid opponents.

Hendo's resume is similar.

Can you honestly tell me that Silva has fought as many world-class guys as the other two?

And then you have Big Nog and Fedor in the HW ranks.... hell, even Sakuraba impressed me more with the quality of his wins against tough opponents... and he RARELY fought guys who were in his own weight class!
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:27 PM   #2391 (permalink)
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he was fighting a washed up, never was in Bonnar. Shameful and embarrassing for the UFC. There are other, younger and better fighters that could have givin the guy a fight. its just one gaff after another with these guys lately.

As for GSP, I wish people would drop this. He doesnt cut as much as people think, he isnt a big guy. Silva is 220 lbs man, they are NOT even close in weight class. GSP doesnt owe anyone anything, making him fight a superstar like silva who is clearly much bigger is not doing ANYTHING for GSP, he has everything to lose.

We all wanna know what might happen, but honestly, it should never happen...its like, who wold win, Sugar Ray Leonard or Muhammad Ali? we would love to know, but would you have put them in a ring?
Silva is a 'fat' 220. That's when he's out of shape. When Anderson is in fight shape, he's around 200 pounds. GSP during his fight with Shields was 193 pounds on fight day. On the other hand, Anderson was 197 pounds during his fight with Sonnen (the latest one). So when GSP is in shape, he's around 188-190, while Anderson in shape is around 197-203 pounds. They are not that far apart. Yes, Anderson is bigger, but not as big as some people are making it out to be. In comparison, Bones is around 225-230 pounds when he's in fight shape. GSP/Andy are closer in weight [approx. 15 pound difference] than Andy/Bones [approx. 25-30 pounds].

GSP does cut a good amount of weight, 25 pounds.

Link:The man behind Georges St-Pierre?s success - thestar.com

GSP's coach saying he cuts 25 pounds and he also says that he's 192-193 on fight night.

Link:http://extra.globo.com/esporte/ufc-c...a-5475185.html

Article stating Anderson beginning his weight cut at 197 pounds.

Having said all that, Silva/Bones is much more intriguing than Silva/GSP. Both fights are great though.


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Forgot about Franklin... I'll def. give him props for those wins as well... but Leites, Marquart, Maia (at that weight), Okami.... and a Griffin and Bonnar that have almost ZERO skill and are all heart/toughness/brawling.

Sorry... but I'm less than impressed. Have you heard anything about any of those guys since? Except for Maia who had to move down a weight class to achieve some success?

When I mentioned Liddell I noted that he stated in the UFC a bit too long... Dana had feared that for while. If you take out his last 3 fights he'd have been 21-5 and if you look at the wins that he's had over his career it was a who's who of elite fighters at the time. Ortiz x 2, Couture x 2, Babalu x 2, Horn, Randleman, Vitor, Overeem... even his losses (1 to Jardine, 2x to Rampage, 1 to Couture and 1 to Horn) were against some solid opponents.

Hendo's resume is similar.

Can you honestly tell me that Silva has fought as many world-class guys as the other two?

And then you have Big Nog and Fedor in the HW ranks.... hell, even Sakuraba impressed me more with the quality of his wins against tough opponents... and he RARELY fought guys who were in his own weight class!

No matter what you say, facts are that the bolded fighters were ranked at the time Anderson fought them. I'm not sure how you don't understand, the fighters you mentioned [I bolded] were in the upper-echelon of their respective divisions.

So ranked fighters now have 'zero skill'? I've never heard that one before. Also, Maia, who is arguably the greatest BJJ practitioner in MMA history has 'zero skill'?

LOL @ you taking out a huge chunk of Liddell's career. Even with that chunk gone, he's still not even close to Anderson. Also, his wins over Horn and Babalu (for one of his fights with Liddell) were not ranked.

For competition, you should be looking at rankings, not names. According to rankings Andy is #1.

Big Nog is not even the best HW of all time, what chance does he have at GOAT status. And, although Fedor has beaten some excellent fighters, he's also beaten a bunch of horrible to mediocre fighters.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:38 PM   #2392 (permalink)
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No matter what you say, facts are that the bolded fighters were ranked at the time Anderson fought them. I'm not sure how you don't understand, the fighters you mentioned [I bolded] were in the upper-echelon of their respective divisions.

So ranked fighters now have 'zero skill'? I've never heard that one before. Also, Maia, who is arguably the greatest BJJ practitioner in MMA history has 'zero skill'?

LOL @ you taking out a huge chunk of Liddell's career. Even with that chunk gone, he's still not even close to Anderson. Also, his wins over Horn and Babalu (for one of his fights with Liddell) were not ranked.

For competition, you should be looking at rankings, not names. According to rankings Andy is #1.

Big Nog is not even the best HW of all time, what chance does he have at GOAT status. And, although Fedor has beaten some excellent fighters, he's also beaten a bunch of horrible to mediocre fighters.
1. I've said for ages that Silva's division (and GSP's) are pretty weak. No where near as competitive as what LHW has been.

2. Maia definitely has skill. Didn't mean to slight him in that regard. He was just too small to be fighting at MW. WW seems like a much better fit for him.

3. A "chunk" of Lidell's career? Eliminating his last 3 fights in a chunk?

4. *shrug* The only guy that really had Big Nog's number his whole career was Fedor. His 2 losses to Mir were due to idiocy (shouldn't have taken the 1st fight and should've just stayed on the feet and KO'd Mir in the second). Other than that his record is actually pretty stellar. A loss to Barnett and a loss to Cain (who are 2 of the best HWs in the world right now) are the only smears on his record recently. We're talking about a guy who was 19-1 and 31-4 at one point... and fought (and beat) a guy who outweighed him by over 100lbs. Hard to take anything away from him (IMO).
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:47 PM   #2393 (permalink)
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I think they are all fantastic, comparing them is a bit silly. My real point is that they are different sizes, expecting them to fight doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:04 PM   #2394 (permalink)
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1. I've said for ages that Silva's division (and GSP's) are pretty weak. No where near as competitive as what LHW has been.

2. Maia definitely has skill. Didn't mean to slight him in that regard. He was just too small to be fighting at MW. WW seems like a much better fit for him.

3. A "chunk" of Lidell's career? Eliminating his last 3 fights in a chunk?

4. *shrug* The only guy that really had Big Nog's number his whole career was Fedor. His 2 losses to Mir were due to idiocy (shouldn't have taken the 1st fight and should've just stayed on the feet and KO'd Mir in the second). Other than that his record is actually pretty stellar. A loss to Barnett and a loss to Cain (who are 2 of the best HWs in the world right now) are the only smears on his record recently. We're talking about a guy who was 19-1 and 31-4 at one point... and fought (and beat) a guy who outweighed him by over 100lbs. Hard to take anything away from him (IMO).
I misread, I though you wanted to take out his last 6 fights. Still, three fights is enough, if I could take 3 fights out of Silva's career, he would be undefeated.

LHW right now is not that great now and even in Liddell's era, it wasn't that great either. Rampage and Shogun are a shadow of their former selves, while Hendo is a MW. The only really elite fighters in that division right now are Rashad and Machida. Gus, Teixeria and Davis are good as well, but not elite just yet.

MW and WW have almost always been a better division than HW.

I respect Big Nog and Fedor, but you can only make an argument for Fedor being the GOAT. Big Nog is a shell of his former self right now. He's still good, but not great by any means. Any elite HW would beat him pretty handily right now. On the other hand, Andy has always shown greatness. He's never been just good or okay. Fedor's three straight losses, all by finishes really put him out of contention. Also, his list of wins contains some cans. For example, his last two wins were against horrible scrubs. If you add Zulu and Hong Man Choi, Bonnar in comparison, looks amazing.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:11 PM   #2395 (permalink)
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I think they are all fantastic, comparing them is a bit silly. My real point is that they are different sizes, expecting them to fight doesn't make sense to me.
It makes sense because GSP/Silva is the biggest fight you can make right now. The top 2 P4P best in the world going at it.

It's understandable why GSP doesn't want a superfight with Silva. I'm not going to knock him for that. For the same reason, I'm not going to knock Anderson for not wanting to fight Bones. I'm just hoping that, since their size difference isn't that much, we can see Silva/GSP. I doubt we'll ever see Silva/Bones though, while on the other hand, Silva/GSP is a possibility [though unlikely IMO].
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:22 PM   #2396 (permalink)
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I full on believe, even after what I said, that GSP takes out Silva.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:25 PM   #2397 (permalink)
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I respect Big Nog and Fedor, but you can only make an argument for Fedor being the GOAT. Big Nog is a shell of his former self right now. He's still good, but not great by any means. Any elite HW would beat him pretty handily right now. On the other hand, Andy has always shown greatness. He's never been just good or okay. Fedor's three straight losses, all by finishes really put him out of contention. Also, his list of wins contains some cans. For example, his last two wins were against horrible scrubs. If you add Zulu and Hong Man Choi, Bonnar in comparison, looks amazing.
Meh. I would still bet on Big Bog against pretty much any HW out there. I think that those 2 losses to Mir (which really should have never happened) have clouded some people's thought on him. He's still an excellent striker and next to Mir, the premier submission fighter in that weight class. I don't think he's done yet. Just had to eat a big dose of humble pie after underestimating Mir and getting too cocky.

I looked at Silva's record again and I still maintain that he's RARELY put himself in a position to be truly challenged.

When he accepted the fights against Vitor, Sonnen (2nd time) and Hendo... THOSE were fights that he had a legit shot of losing and couldn't clown in. The rest? I dunno... just looked like target practice to me.

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I full on believe, even after what I said, that GSP takes out Silva.
I wouldn't like his chances. Trying to "outpoint" Silva for 5 rounds is a recipe for disaster.... and if GSP couldn't finish a guy like Hardy I doubt he's going to KO or submit Silva.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:30 PM   #2398 (permalink)
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whatever... thats such bullshit man, and boring at best for me. I have every single GSP fight, trust me, he hasnt "out pointed" everyone. He's kicked the shit out of everyone.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:46 PM   #2399 (permalink)
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whatever... thats such bullshit man, and boring at best for me. I have every single GSP fight, trust me, he hasnt "out pointed" everyone. He's kicked the shit out of everyone.
Fanboy.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:33 PM   #2400 (permalink)
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I full on believe, even after what I said, that GSP takes out Silva.
Keep dreaming

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Meh. I would still bet on Big Bog against pretty much any HW out there. I think that those 2 losses to Mir (which really should have never happened) have clouded some people's thought on him. He's still an excellent striker and next to Mir, the premier submission fighter in that weight class. I don't think he's done yet. Just had to eat a big dose of humble pie after underestimating Mir and getting too cocky.

I looked at Silva's record again and I still maintain that he's RARELY put himself in a position to be truly challenged.

When he accepted the fights against Vitor, Sonnen (2nd time) and Hendo... THOSE were fights that he had a legit shot of losing and couldn't clown in. The rest? I dunno... just looked like target practice to me.



I wouldn't like his chances. Trying to "outpoint" Silva for 5 rounds is a recipe for disaster.... and if GSP couldn't finish a guy like Hardy I doubt he's going to KO or submit Silva
.
100% agree @ the bolded.

It looks like target practice because Anderson is just THAT good. He makes his opponents look like children

Big Nog would lose to JDS, Cain [again], Overeem, Cormier, Mir [again] and Werdum. A fight with Barnett would be a toss-up.

Big Nog lost to Mir twice because he's the inferior fighter. I hate Mir, but by beating Nog twice, he proved he was the better fighter.
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